Proper Bali Grip?

[David]

Hi Rick. I do find with my bondolan style hilts that a close approximation of this grip is possible if you choke up on the hilt a bit. However, while the thumb comfortably fits in the pecetan on one side, when chocked up the forefinger does not on the other, which was my understanding of the Javanese grip.

[A. G. Maisey]

I think that this question is really a part of another question:- why are Bali keris bigger?

I haven't got very big hands---short fingers, square palm, thick.

There is no way I can hold a Bali keris the way I was taught to hold a Jawa keris.

I rather like your idea Rick, of linking the grip size, which of course reflects the keris size, to symbolism. I don't know we can just say "status", because you can get some pretty villagey keris that are pretty big, but I am inclined to think that the size of the Bali keris links to symbolism, amongst other things.

Keris are worn differently in Bali than in other places, and Balinese dress is different to the dress in Jawa and other places. In Jawa the sarung ends at the waist, the keris is worn at the waist, but in Bali a formal sarung comes up to the chest, and the keris is worn at the back with it sticking up above the shoulder. Worn like this a Jawa size keris would be out of proportion, it would look odd, it would possibly be difficult to draw. I wonder if keris size in Bali developed along with the wearing of the sarung in a different way?

Yeah, sure, in old Bali men leaving their villages had to go armed with a keris. Old bali was a pretty hairy place from all accounts. The various rulers at war with one another more often than not, lots of strife. It was a place to be avoided.Small communities cannot afford to lose members, so the members of a small community have a duty to the community to try to preserve their own lives. Thus you got outside the village you take your keris. Don't do it :- get fined.

Now this chest high sarung would not have been worn all the time, a normal waist high sarung would have been worn for everyday use more often so how was the super-size Bali keris worn then?

Well, maybe it wasn't worn, maybe it was carried. One thing you see often in Bali and Jawa is that men carrying knives that you might think would be logically stuck into the waist band of trousers, or into the waist fold of a sarung, carry these knives in their left hand.Maybe the big bali keris was carried this way under normal conditions too.

Some years ago I attempted to discuss Bali keris size with a very well known keris authority. I put the question:- why is the Bali keris bigger than the Jawa keris?

His answer?

It is not.

Now this man is not a fool, he has lived in Bali for a number of years, and lived in Indonesia for years, but here he is saying something that is apparently ridiculous. I could not get him to expand on this statement. He is extremely unforthcoming in matters of the keris, because he is always on the verge of publishing something, and in his case this relates directly to income.

I've often thought about what he meant by saying that the Bali keris is not bigger than the Jawa keris. Possibly he meant that proportionately it is not bigger. Generally speaking, Balinese men tend to be physically bigger than Javanese men. Maybe as a proportion of body size both keris types are about the same in size.

If this is so, and the keris size increased along with body size, then it is possible that at some point in development it was noted that the pesi had become robust enough to sustain side pressure from slashes, or thrusts gone wrong. As pesi strength increased , length increased, weight increased, the Bali keris might have become too heavy to be used effectively the way a Jawa keris was used, so a different method of use evolved, which involved only gripping the handle.

Look at the Bali keris handle:- it is designed to provide a firm, non-slip grip. It is meant to be held firmly, not just act as a guide and balance point as is the case with a Jawa keris.

I think that we are probably looking at a completely different method of use associated with the Bali keris than with the Jawa keris.

At this remove it might be impossible to substantiate this.

Dances and martial arts use cannot be held to reflect normal combat use of 200 years ago.

However, it seems to me that if a handle is made in a way that indicates ideal form for a non-slip grip, even when the user's hand and the handle itself are dripping blood, then that handle is meant to be firmly held, not just act as a guide.

[David]

Thanks Alan, very interesting fuel for thought.

[Rick]

Well, I took a trip through Tammens and found a relatively consistent range of sizes . Unfortunately Tammens does not even guess at the age of the hilts shown but there seem to be essentially two sizes; 10-12 cm. and 14-16 cm.

You both are correct that my version of the Jawa grip is inefficient for these blades; and the blade example I used to illustrate was of the humped ganja style thus enhancing any chance of acheiving the Jawa grip.

This brings me to another question; why are not Bali keris more securely attached to their grips?
I realise that as a collector my keris grips would be more loosely attached to prevent splitting or damaging the handles; but what about in real conditions; what about blade twist during use?

One would think that without the stabilising effect of the hand in the Jawa style grip that the Bali keris would have gone the way of the Moro pieces; into a flattened tang to prevent twist.

[A. G. Maisey]

Problem is Rick, we don't really know how Bali handles were attached way back when they were actually using the things.

I've had a couple of Bali keris that had the handles fixed with something like damar, so maybe this was general 100 years+ ago, but I don't know for sure.

If damar was used it would have given a very firm fix to the handle. Any tang that is set in damar will split the handle and bend the tang and blade before it ever comes loose. Sword tangs were set in damar, and those tangs are often not all that long. No way you can get a tang set in damar free without heating the blade to soften the damar.

This being so, there was no need to go to the Moro keris system.In any case, Bali blades are not near as substantial as Moro type blades.

[Rick]

I was unaware of Damar Alan; a plant resin ?

I guess this brings up the question of differing fighting systems with regards to Jawa and Bali.
The different grip could possibly be used for the overhand blow, or strike as well as the thrust.

[David]

Alan may be right about this. I also have a Bali keris that was fastened with some natural resin materal like damar and it was certainly a hardy grip. It took quite a bit of heating and wiggling to remove it. I would image that hilt would have remained extremely stable through use without ever gripping the actual blade.

[Emanuel]

Hello,

The last three comments above brought to mind this picture from http://old.blades.free.fr/home.htm
It shows a grip different from that of Jawa keris, as well as a common? wear of Balinese keris.

Regards,
Emanuel