Jezail rifle. Unusual version ?

ward · 3rd December 2006, 05:28 PM

Here is one blacksmith's way of making barrells. Not saying all methods were used on this rifle but just gives a very basic idea of how a barrell could be constructed.

Philip · 4th December 2006, 01:23 AM

Ward,
Thanks for posting the pics of the rifling process used in pre-industrial America. One would suspect that similar methods were used in the Ottoman Empire (the majority of Turkish "shishhane" guns are rifled) since both the Turks and the rifle-makers of colonial Pennsylvania looked to the same ancestral source for the rifle concept: the German-speaking world.

As far as taking the pains to check and clear the barrels of old guns, you are spot-on. I have a couple of other tips, given me by veteran shooters of black-powder guns, which I've used for years and that you might find useful.

1. Besides removing any old charges, an important part of cleaning is removal of any layers of powder fouling from previous shots. Most modern shooters mistakenly use some of the commercial petro-based solvents such as Hoppes No. 9, but although these work fine to remove lead deposits and the fouling from nitro powders and mercuric primers, it doesn't do much for the "glaze" of old black powder combusion residue which is itself a moisture trap. BOILING HOT WATER WITH LYE SOAP is a tried-and-true old time black powder solvent. Dismount the barrel from the gun (or else be very careful not to wet the stock), and use an old metal teakettle to pour the hot stuff down the muzzle to flush thoroughly, then work on it with your brush-on-rod tool until the water spritzing from the touch-hole is clean.

2. Stubborn scales of rust clinging to the bore can be attacked with penetrating oil (Break Free is a good product). Plug the touch hole, fill the bore with the stuff, stand the gun in a corner and forget about it for several days, then work on it with your bore tools. Repeat as necessary. In the pre-Break-Free era, one guy told me that he had good luck with Coca Cola (the old classick formula). He learned that after reading a report about how the stuff could free up seized engine cylinders and dissolve things like typewriter keys and the galvanizing off of nails that were soaked long enough in it. ( BTW just think of what this infernal bevridge can do to your stomach lining under such circumstances. I got religion after hearing about this and immediately gave up Coke in favor of beer

)

After cleaning, make sure bore is dry and you can oil with your favorite lubricant; a guy on another forum uses Ballistol and I can vouch for the durable protection it provides.

The Double D · 4th December 2006, 04:32 AM

Boy I'm glad I didn't say "definitely". I'm not all that familiar with Indo- Persian Guns...that's obvious.

Be very careful with that hot lye solution it will burn flesh and eat wood.

Philip · 5th December 2006, 04:53 AM

Note that in my prior post I said "lye SOAP", please do not use straight lye! Lye soap is the old-fashioned stuff in the huge yellow brick that people used for hand laundry back in the days of washtubs and corrugated washboards. (It was a real OLD-timer that passed this tip on to me, I'm just repeating it verbatim. The essential is hot, soapy water. I use a heavy duty dish detergent, it works well enough for the porpoise).

fernando · 8th December 2006, 08:10 PM

Gentlemen, i am "swamped" with so much information.
Philip, i am glad that you have ( another ) Portuguese book, Espingarda Perfeyta, an unique gun treatise from the early XVIII century. It looks like the drawing of the "square reamer" shown here by Ward, corresponds to the description of chapter XXI, for the barrel drilling, in that Portuguese work.
I still think both Ward's barrel and mine were made with the same technique, only mine went through a certain endurance and the lands were much worn with the intense shooting of whatever projectile material. Besides it could be that these barrels were a little flared at the muzzle section originally, which seems to be a rule on barrel making, according to Espingarda Pefeyta.
After inumerous tryals, i managed to get a couple pictures on the barrel exterior finishing. It sure looks like filing ... or doesn't it ?
fernando

Philip · 11th December 2006, 06:57 AM

Hi, Fernando
Thanks for the close up pics. Yes, those look like file marks to me. The patina on the surface throughout indicates that they have been there for a long time, and are not the result of someone's recent attempt to remove rust. If the marks continue all around the barrel and along its length, it's pretty likely that they were left over from original manufacture. If so, it's unlikely that the Afghan smith studied ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA during his apprenticeship!

3rd December 2006, 05:28 PM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Here is one blacksmith's way of making barrells. Not saying all methods were used on this rifle but just gives a very basic idea of how a barrell could be constructed. Attached Images

4th December 2006, 01:23 AM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	rifling methods / cleaning antique gun bores Ward, Thanks for posting the pics of the rifling process used in pre-industrial America. One would suspect that similar methods were used in the Ottoman Empire (the majority of Turkish "shishhane" guns are rifled) since both the Turks and the rifle-makers of colonial Pennsylvania looked to the same ancestral source for the rifle concept: the German-speaking world. As far as taking the pains to check and clear the barrels of old guns, you are spot-on. I have a couple of other tips, given me by veteran shooters of black-powder guns, which I've used for years and that you might find useful. 1. Besides removing any old charges, an important part of cleaning is removal of any layers of powder fouling from previous shots. Most modern shooters mistakenly use some of the commercial petro-based solvents such as Hoppes No. 9, but although these work fine to remove lead deposits and the fouling from nitro powders and mercuric primers, it doesn't do much for the "glaze" of old black powder combusion residue which is itself a moisture trap. BOILING HOT WATER WITH LYE SOAP is a tried-and-true old time black powder solvent. Dismount the barrel from the gun (or else be very careful not to wet the stock), and use an old metal teakettle to pour the hot stuff down the muzzle to flush thoroughly, then work on it with your brush-on-rod tool until the water spritzing from the touch-hole is clean. 2. Stubborn scales of rust clinging to the bore can be attacked with penetrating oil (Break Free is a good product). Plug the touch hole, fill the bore with the stuff, stand the gun in a corner and forget about it for several days, then work on it with your bore tools. Repeat as necessary. In the pre-Break-Free era, one guy told me that he had good luck with Coca Cola (the old classick formula). He learned that after reading a report about how the stuff could free up seized engine cylinders and dissolve things like typewriter keys and the galvanizing off of nails that were soaked long enough in it. ( BTW just think of what this infernal bevridge can do to your stomach lining under such circumstances. I got religion after hearing about this and immediately gave up Coke in favor of beer ) After cleaning, make sure bore is dry and you can oil with your favorite lubricant; a guy on another forum uses Ballistol and I can vouch for the durable protection it provides.

5th December 2006, 04:53 AM	#4
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	caution! Note that in my prior post I said "lye SOAP", please do not use straight lye! Lye soap is the old-fashioned stuff in the huge yellow brick that people used for hand laundry back in the days of washtubs and corrugated washboards. (It was a real OLD-timer that passed this tip on to me, I'm just repeating it verbatim. The essential is hot, soapy water. I use a heavy duty dish detergent, it works well enough for the porpoise).

8th December 2006, 08:10 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Gentlemen, i am "swamped" with so much information. Philip, i am glad that you have ( another ) Portuguese book, Espingarda Perfeyta, an unique gun treatise from the early XVIII century. It looks like the drawing of the "square reamer" shown here by Ward, corresponds to the description of chapter XXI, for the barrel drilling, in that Portuguese work. I still think both Ward's barrel and mine were made with the same technique, only mine went through a certain endurance and the lands were much worn with the intense shooting of whatever projectile material. Besides it could be that these barrels were a little flared at the muzzle section originally, which seems to be a rule on barrel making, according to Espingarda Pefeyta. After inumerous tryals, i managed to get a couple pictures on the barrel exterior finishing. It sure looks like filing ... or doesn't it ? fernando Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 8th December 2006 at 08:40 PM.

4th December 2006, 04:32 AM	#3
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	Boy I'm glad I didn't say "definitely". I'm not all that familiar with Indo- Persian Guns...that's obvious. Be very careful with that hot lye solution it will burn flesh and eat wood.

11th December 2006, 06:57 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Hi, Fernando Thanks for the close up pics. Yes, those look like file marks to me. The patina on the surface throughout indicates that they have been there for a long time, and are not the result of someone's recent attempt to remove rust. If the marks continue all around the barrel and along its length, it's pretty likely that they were left over from original manufacture. If so, it's unlikely that the Afghan smith studied ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA during his apprenticeship!