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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,036
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There are a couple points on which I tend to differ.
"...generally, round barrels are damascus, octagonal ones were not." In my experience as a collector, octagonal barrels of twist damascus steel are not uncommon in the Muslim world. They were in fact widely made in the the Ottoman Empire as well as Persia. Three Sind guns of superlative quality (two flint, one with a percussion lock roughly similar to Fernando's and Ward's examples), are in the Nasser D. Khalili collection of Islamic art and are published in THE ART OF WAR, by David Alexander (Oxford/Nour Foundation, 1992), cat. nos. 136-38. All of these guns have slender octagonal barrels with swamped muzzles and are of beautiful damascus steel. "...don't believe that these rifle barrels were mandrel-formed" The use of a mandrel in forging Indian twist barrels is clearly mentioned in the detailed description of barrel manufacture on page 61 of Wilbrahim Egerton's AN ILLUSTRATED HANDBOOK OF INDIAN ARMS... Bangkok: White Orchid Press, 1981 (facsimile repr of original London edn of 1880). Lastly, I would like to add a comment to Double D's useful explanation of the manufacture of octagonal barrels. Although mastery of draw-filing technique has been a part of the gunsmith's repertoire of skills for centuries, artisans have learned long ago that preliminary shaping of the flats by forging saves considerable time and effort on the filing-bench. This is analogous to the cutlery trade as well : a knife- and swordmaker specializing in pattern welded blades once explained to me that he does as much of the basic contour and bevel shaping as possible by hammer, this also being amply illustrated on p 83 of Kapp/Yoshihara THE CRAFT OF THE JAPANESE SWORD. Be that as it may, and returning to the world of guns, I would like to share a very interesting reference from Fernando's homeland, a rare Portuguese gunmaker's manual entitled ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA, e REGRAS PARA A SUA OPERACAO, com CIRCUNSTANCIAS NECESSARIAS PARA O SEU ARTIFICIO, e DOUTRINAS PARA O MELHOR ACERTO (The Perfect Gun, and rules for its use, together with necessary instructions for its construction and precepts for good shooting), written by Cesar Fiosconi and Jordao Guserio in 1718 (facsimile edn, trans by Rainer Daehnhardt, London: Sotheby Parke Bernet Publications Ltd., 1974). The authors devote an entire chapter (XIX) to the art of forging and finishing barrels by hammer without need for filing. I have never encountered one of these Portuguese masterwork barrels whose surfaces were precisely shaped without need for any stock-removal whatsoever. However, I have seen a few rudely-made jezails from Afghanistan or Central Asia whose octagonal barrels clearly showed the imprint of the hammer throughout their surfaces, particularly on the side and bottom flats. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 637
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"By the way you both need to run a rod down the bore and make sure they are not still loaded. The rod should reach all the way down to where the nipple is. Both bores could also do with a good cleaning and oiling. They look dry but dusty, a trap for moisture.
Have you shot them?" regarding the rifles being loaded. It is the first thing I check when I buy one. quick check is done by cleaning the toach hole with a tooth pick and blowing down the barrell. If it does not blow clean then I take a long wood rod run it down barrell and check it against length. If it is loaded as about 35% are that I get in. I have a long metal rod with a wood screw welded on it. I fill the barrell with some water and screw the rod in and pull the ball or more likely a shot mix with black powder out. Aferwards dump water and put in oil. Many years ago I did shoot a indian matchlock I had when I was a lot stupider. Not knowing the corrosian or forging flaws inside a barrell it is not a good idea to put chamber pressure into these guns.Afghan rifles expecially often have used glass rocks or anything else handy instead of lead shot |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 637
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Here is one blacksmith's way of making barrells. Not saying all methods were used on this rifle but just gives a very basic idea of how a barrell could be constructed.
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,036
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Ward,
Thanks for posting the pics of the rifling process used in pre-industrial America. One would suspect that similar methods were used in the Ottoman Empire (the majority of Turkish "shishhane" guns are rifled) since both the Turks and the rifle-makers of colonial Pennsylvania looked to the same ancestral source for the rifle concept: the German-speaking world. As far as taking the pains to check and clear the barrels of old guns, you are spot-on. I have a couple of other tips, given me by veteran shooters of black-powder guns, which I've used for years and that you might find useful. 1. Besides removing any old charges, an important part of cleaning is removal of any layers of powder fouling from previous shots. Most modern shooters mistakenly use some of the commercial petro-based solvents such as Hoppes No. 9, but although these work fine to remove lead deposits and the fouling from nitro powders and mercuric primers, it doesn't do much for the "glaze" of old black powder combusion residue which is itself a moisture trap. BOILING HOT WATER WITH LYE SOAP is a tried-and-true old time black powder solvent. Dismount the barrel from the gun (or else be very careful not to wet the stock), and use an old metal teakettle to pour the hot stuff down the muzzle to flush thoroughly, then work on it with your brush-on-rod tool until the water spritzing from the touch-hole is clean. 2. Stubborn scales of rust clinging to the bore can be attacked with penetrating oil (Break Free is a good product). Plug the touch hole, fill the bore with the stuff, stand the gun in a corner and forget about it for several days, then work on it with your bore tools. Repeat as necessary. In the pre-Break-Free era, one guy told me that he had good luck with Coca Cola (the old classick formula). He learned that after reading a report about how the stuff could free up seized engine cylinders and dissolve things like typewriter keys and the galvanizing off of nails that were soaked long enough in it. ( BTW just think of what this infernal bevridge can do to your stomach lining under such circumstances. I got religion after hearing about this and immediately gave up Coke in favor of beer ![]() After cleaning, make sure bore is dry and you can oil with your favorite lubricant; a guy on another forum uses Ballistol and I can vouch for the durable protection it provides. |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana
Posts: 189
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Boy I'm glad I didn't say "definitely". I'm not all that familiar with Indo- Persian Guns...that's obvious.
Be very careful with that hot lye solution it will burn flesh and eat wood. |
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,036
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Note that in my prior post I said "lye SOAP", please do not use straight lye! Lye soap is the old-fashioned stuff in the huge yellow brick that people used for hand laundry back in the days of washtubs and corrugated washboards. (It was a real OLD-timer that passed this tip on to me, I'm just repeating it verbatim. The essential is hot, soapy water. I use a heavy duty dish detergent, it works well enough for the porpoise).
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#7 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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Gentlemen, i am "swamped" with so much information.
Philip, i am glad that you have ( another ) Portuguese book, Espingarda Perfeyta, an unique gun treatise from the early XVIII century. It looks like the drawing of the "square reamer" shown here by Ward, corresponds to the description of chapter XXI, for the barrel drilling, in that Portuguese work. I still think both Ward's barrel and mine were made with the same technique, only mine went through a certain endurance and the lands were much worn with the intense shooting of whatever projectile material. Besides it could be that these barrels were a little flared at the muzzle section originally, which seems to be a rule on barrel making, according to Espingarda Pefeyta. After inumerous tryals, i managed to get a couple pictures on the barrel exterior finishing. It sure looks like filing ... or doesn't it ? fernando Last edited by fernando; 8th December 2006 at 08:40 PM. |
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