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#1 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Thanks for that Ben, I will be most interested to see his justification, if he is willing to give it.---alan.
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Hi I might meet him the 17 off december so I ask him
Ben |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/...0-e00a18064a99
The New York Public Library, Digital Collections Java: Antiquities. Origin unknown. Hindu and Buddhist subjects: Bronze trident. Owned by the old Bupati of Modjokerto. Origin unknown Picture made by Lembaga Purbakala dan Peninggalan Nasional, collected by Claire Holt, created: 1950 - 1960 (Approximate) |
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#4 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Hello Gustav,
Quote:
As indicated, this may not really help in placing this style since pieces in the collection of a bupati might be gifts from other rulers. Regards, Kai |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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In case this Trisula is not a later forgery, it could be quite a lot older then Michael's one (and has some substantial differences). It looks like an excavated object.
This might be a hint that the old Bupati mentioned is Raden Adipati Arya Kromodjoyo Adinegoro IV https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAA_Kromodjoyo_Adinegoro If this would be an old and excavated object indeed, I doubt it would come from another regency, even more from outside of land of Java. |
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#6 |
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That's interesting Gustav, thanks for making the pic available.
Certainly it is outside the possibility of classification according to the Central Javanese tangguh system. It just doesn't fit. However, this one is bronze. The trident is associated with Siwa, and both these tridents have a triple ring feature between the base of the metuk and the base of the blade. The first trisula from 2006 appears to be of iron and it has a metuk base that slightly resembles Puton classification, and its triple ring feature has a larger, heavier central ring. The second trisula is of bronze and the ring feature has thinner rings, but still three rings. I feel we might be looking at something from the Hindu-Buddhist period here. Trident > Siwa. Trident > three blades Metuk + three rings > the Hindu Trinity(Trimurti) > Brahma > Wisnu > Siwa Trident > Trimurti > Trimetuk Only an idea, but bronze/Mojokerto/three/trisula/Trimurti/Siwa. It fits together too neatly to be ignored In Buddhist-Hindu culture as it was in Jawa & Bali, everything goes in threes. Thanks again Gustav, for me, this is a clarification. EDIT You will note that on the original trisula the centre ring is heavier than the other two rings. This centre ring can, I believe, be understood as representing Siwa. In the Trimurti Brahma is the Creator, Wisnu is the Preserver, Siwa is the Destroyer. The direction associated with Brahma is to the South. The direction associated with Wisnu is to the North. Siwa's position is at the Centre, but Siwa's favourite direction is North. In the Early Classical Period the temple complex at Prambanan was constructed to face to the East, this was the usual Hindu temple orientation in Central Jawa during this period. Prambanan is a complex of three temples with the temple of Brahma to the South of the temple of Siwa, and the temple of Wisnu to the North of the temple of Siwa. Thus, read as directional orientation, facing the temple of Siwa you have Brahma to the left, Siwa at the centre, and Wisnu to the right. The same would apply with other representations of the Trimurti during the early classical period in Central Jawa. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 27th August 2020 at 09:13 AM. |
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#7 |
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Yes Alan, I also thought about it.
There are even more tripartite elements - the central blade appears to be triangular (we see it clearly on Michael's Trisula), it has three swellings. Of importance is also the symbol at the base of blade. On bronze Trisula we possibly see the motif of Trisula beeing repeated three times, every time augmented, and the first time the central element is in a shape of Gunungan. There is one more Trisula, roughly of the same kind but even simpler then Michael's, in the "Kraton Jogja" book, page 148 (chapter "Heirlooms"). It lacks the tripartite Methuk, the last swelling at the point (blade perhaps shortened), and in that picture we see the backside of Trisula, so we dont know if there is a symbol on front side at the base of blade. In any case the indentation (as transition from base of blade/Methuk to the middle edge) recalls the shape of Gungungan, as perhaps does also the shape of the swelling in the middle of central blade (Michael's blade is different in this very last aspect). Last edited by Gustav; 27th August 2020 at 12:30 PM. |
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#8 |
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Hello Gustav,
It certainly looks like the iron may have lost quite a bit of substance - not unreasonable to assume that the tip got lost. BTW, this is a besi lima rather than a trisula. This might also had affected the construction/style of the central spike. Regards, Kai |
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