Dayak parang ilang Handle

[Dajak]

Hi Arjan can you take a look in leiden about this handle ??

Ben

[VVV]

Ben,

I don't think Leiden is the proper place to find resembling hilts to ours.
This because of the non Iban bias in their collection.
I had a look myself in their collection archive and didn't find any close to yours.
On my hilt it looks clearly influenced by two of the old Kenyah hilts collected by Nieuwenhuis?
By influenced I mean that that's the closest resemblence of the hilts in their collection. Not that they are identical in style.
Maybe the Kenyah resemblence is another reason to classify this as a transition sword before the Iban adopted the Ilang as their own parang?
Here is a picture of the hilt from another angle for comparison.

Michael

PS Don't you think your hilt a bit resembles the old ones in Tromp's article, collected in Koetei?

[Dajak]

Hi Michael

I don t think so because if you look at that type off hilt you see a face and the back off the handle is almost straight .
I see also no type off hilt in Hein so would be difficult to trace it

your hilt is also a nice one
Ben

[VVV]

Hi Ben,

I don't see a face on all the hilts in Tromp?
And not on the example I have enclosed.
But I don't think they have the Tumpal motif either.
So it was just an idea on a slight resemblance and a possible connection?

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Michael I think this type off handle might be older then the tromp handle
because the lip at the back side we see disappear after 1900.


Ben

[Marcokeris]

Here two pages from Holstein book

[Dajak]

Hi Marcokeris can you tel me the writer from the book and what name the book have



Ben

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Ben,

I don't see a face on all the hilts in Tromp?
And not on the example I have enclosed.
But I don't think they have the Tumpal motif either.
So it was just an idea on a slight resemblance and a possible connection?

Michael

Hi Michael,
Some of Tromp's handles surely has faces but indeed not on all
I have seen them in Leiden and some of them are in the typical Koetei style with face.I have the idea that the face on the grip fade away after 1900 when headhunting was'nt practised as often as before the great peacemaking.

arjan.

[VVV]

Hi Arjan,

Interesting idea about the faces fading away later.
Is it just an unconfirmed idea or do you have any indications of why that could be the case?
I had the idea that it was the other way around based on how rare the old non-face hilts, those combined with high class blades, are?
Why do you think Tromp shows the non-face first and then the hilts with face?

Michael

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Arjan,

Interesting idea about the faces fading away later.
Is it just an unconfirmed idea or do you have any indications of why that could be the case?
I had the idea that it was the other way around based on how rare the old non-face hilts, those combined with high class blades, are?
Why do you think Tromp shows the non-face first and then the hilts with face?

Michael

Hi Michael,

its not just an idea,during my vistit in leiden I saw many "faced" mandaugrips in the collection who where collected before 1900.
the old one seems to have bigger noses,faces with more expression.
on the late models (around 1900) the faces are smaller and less expressive.
on later models its completely gone.
also on other models from other tribes you rarely see a face an mandauhilts after 1930.
indeed shows Tromp the non-faced mandau earlier because he also writes that the faced mandau was quite common in those days and the non faced quite rare. ( we speak about pre 1900)

Arjan.

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Arjan can you take a look in leiden about this handle ??

Ben

Hi Ben,
sorry for the late reaction I was very busy making www.thehornbill.com
so I didn't have any time to answer.
The discussion is very interesting.
Leiden has as far as I have seen not a mandauhilt like the one you listed in the beginning of this thread.
what I think is that it is maybe an Iban imitation of a Modang hilt.
the shape is very rare and I don't think you'll find easy another like this.
on the silverwork: I know that the Maloh tribe who produced as well as the brass corsets for the Iban also most of the silverwork.they are likely originated from a mixed race of indigenes and Hindu -Javanese invaders.
This could declare the more ar less "non-Iban" style in the silverwork.
(source: metalworking in Borneo ,V.T King and J.W.Christie)

Arjan.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

Leiden has as far as I have seen not a mandauhilt like the one you listed in the beginning of this thread.
what I think is that it is maybe an Iban imitation of a Modang hilt.

Hi Arjan, Michael, Bill and not to forget the starter of this thread: Ben,

In these interesting threads I miss the presence of Ben, who is unfortunately no member anymore of the forum quite a while now allready.

I have found a mandau with a handle with similar shape as the one Ben posted in the beginning of the thread.
It took me more than a year to get it, because the former owner didn't want to let it go. But after a lot of "nagging" I was able to buy it last week.

It has no antler handle and has no silver sleeve as Ben's, but it has the shame shape. Also there is a similarity on the scabbard (the two leeches to the right are also there on mine), and another carving that is not on Ben's, but what is typically Iban.

The blade is also typicall Iban.
So I guess this makes it more likely the one Ben posted is Iban indeed!

I only post an image of the handle for now! (image is from the seller's, I will post better images also of the handle, scabbard and blade after it arrived at my home).

Maurice

[Maurice]

I found a similar wooden handle in the database of: Musée d'ethnographie, Genève:
A big coincidence is also that it is also a left hander, just like mine!