Indian or African? all metal lance.

Tim Simmons · 29th November 2006, 04:46 PM

I think I am allowed to make this link. If I am wrong then please delete this post. This spear confirms my opinion that it is African and to be more precise Western Sahara. The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left.

http://www.michaeldlong.net/Ko-Bespo.../E3/131/103807

Lew · 29th November 2006, 04:56 PM

[QUOTE=Tim The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left.

Don't be sad Tim

I to suffer from the same disease it's called Fundsarlow syndrome

and it affects many of us here on the forum

Lew

Tim Simmons · 29th November 2006, 05:53 PM

A most ghastly affliction. I hope some medicine arrives on my work bench very soon.

VANDOO · 1st December 2006, 09:12 PM

TAKE A LOOK IN STONES PAGE 213 FIGURE 264 IT IS A SPEAR FROM TIBET REFERED TO AS DUNG. THE INFORMATION ON SOME OF ITS USES IS INTERESTING AND IT HAS THE CARRING STRAP. I DON'T THINK YOURS IS FROM TIBET AND HAVE SEEN EXAMPLES OF THE SHORT SPEARS WITH CARRING STRAP IN AFRICA THEY DO SEEM TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH RIDEING EITHER CAMMELS OR HORSE. ALSO LOOK AT STONES PAGE 536 FIGURE 685 FOR ANOTHER STRANGE SHORT SPEAR TYPE WEAPON.

Tim Simmons · 9th December 2007, 08:16 PM

Brought this back up after some cross referencing. Look at the blade in this post by Fernando. The blade form, decoration and brass work do have a remarkable similarity. It would be nice if this was so as I have just ebay'd what I hope is a very nice 33" blade Mandara sword.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=mandara

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2007, 10:38 PM

I think Vandoo's note on the carrying rings is very well placed, especially in noting these are also present in African spears as well as Tibet. I will say that my first inclination in looking at the decorative bulbs on the spear were that they seem Indian. This is much in accordance with David's notes and the illustrations he posted.
I do agree however, that this work is pretty rough for the work from India, even the village work, which I think avoided such elaborate decoration.

I would submit that possibly this is African work, intended to replicate such weapons from India. There seems of course considerable influence in many African weapons that certainly derives from the Subcontinent, and is most likely associated in degree with the profound trade in key centers such as Zanzibar. The Red Sea trade of course also entered through Ethiopian centers which also carried weapons from Indian sources. It would not seem unlikely that an African smith seeking to emulate the much finer quality spears of India might produce such work. This is not to suggest that African smiths were necessarily less adept, as overall the weapons of Africa often reflect beautiful workmanship. However, like all skilled work, the range of quality varies greatly.

It seems also that the diamond geometric with central dots is something I've seen on African weapons.

All best regards,
Jim

Bill M · 10th December 2007, 01:37 PM

Another thread showing my Sang or Sangu. Some similarities.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=sang

29th November 2006, 04:46 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I have read the rules I think I am allowed to make this link. If I am wrong then please delete this post. This spear confirms my opinion that it is African and to be more precise Western Sahara. The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left. http://www.michaeldlong.net/Ko-Bespo.../E3/131/103807

1st December 2006, 09:12 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	TAKE A LOOK IN STONES PAGE 213 FIGURE 264 IT IS A SPEAR FROM TIBET REFERED TO AS DUNG. THE INFORMATION ON SOME OF ITS USES IS INTERESTING AND IT HAS THE CARRING STRAP. I DON'T THINK YOURS IS FROM TIBET AND HAVE SEEN EXAMPLES OF THE SHORT SPEARS WITH CARRING STRAP IN AFRICA THEY DO SEEM TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH RIDEING EITHER CAMMELS OR HORSE. ALSO LOOK AT STONES PAGE 536 FIGURE 685 FOR ANOTHER STRANGE SHORT SPEAR TYPE WEAPON. Last edited by VANDOO; 1st December 2006 at 09:36 PM.

9th December 2007, 08:16 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Mandara? Brought this back up after some cross referencing. Look at the blade in this post by Fernando. The blade form, decoration and brass work do have a remarkable similarity. It would be nice if this was so as I have just ebay'd what I hope is a very nice 33" blade Mandara sword. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=mandara

29th November 2006, 04:56 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Tim The spear in the link is labeled as Asian. In my opinion it is Mauritanian, African anyway. shame I have no money left. Don't be sad Tim I to suffer from the same disease it's called Fundsarlow syndrome and it affects many of us here on the forum Lew

29th November 2006, 05:53 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	A most ghastly affliction. I hope some medicine arrives on my work bench very soon.

9th December 2007, 10:38 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I think Vandoo's note on the carrying rings is very well placed, especially in noting these are also present in African spears as well as Tibet. I will say that my first inclination in looking at the decorative bulbs on the spear were that they seem Indian. This is much in accordance with David's notes and the illustrations he posted. I do agree however, that this work is pretty rough for the work from India, even the village work, which I think avoided such elaborate decoration. I would submit that possibly this is African work, intended to replicate such weapons from India. There seems of course considerable influence in many African weapons that certainly derives from the Subcontinent, and is most likely associated in degree with the profound trade in key centers such as Zanzibar. The Red Sea trade of course also entered through Ethiopian centers which also carried weapons from Indian sources. It would not seem unlikely that an African smith seeking to emulate the much finer quality spears of India might produce such work. This is not to suggest that African smiths were necessarily less adept, as overall the weapons of Africa often reflect beautiful workmanship. However, like all skilled work, the range of quality varies greatly. It seems also that the diamond geometric with central dots is something I've seen on African weapons. All best regards, Jim

10th December 2007, 01:37 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Another thread showing my Sang or Sangu. Some similarities. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=sang