Dayak parang ilang Handle

Dajak · 25th November 2006, 07:56 PM

Hi Battara yes I did get this one from ebay it is 19 centh and also rare with silver on the handle on the top off the handle same design as they use on heads

It was very cheap it surprise me that it was not recognised as an important piece.

Ben

Bill M · 26th November 2006, 12:37 AM

Congratulations Ben!

Are those stylized leeches on the first hilt picture? I have heard that they were put there to give the Mandau a taste for blood.

VVV · 26th November 2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

... I did get this one from ebay...It was very cheap it surprise me that it was not recognised as an important piece.

Ben

Nicer than I assumed - congratulations.
That's the problem with buying from pictures; you usually get some kind of surprise. In this case a positive surprise.

I was no 2 and my top bid, based on the insecurity because of the pictures, wasn't what most people would consider a bargain???
But compared to the prices of some top dealers in Amsterdam it of course was relatively quite cheap.

Could you please also share some pictures of the blade and sheath?

Michael

Dajak · 26th November 2006, 05:23 PM

Hi thanks Here are some more pics the strange thing about the blade is that
the blade is concave and the otherside is convex this is normal with an parang ilang but the crowit at the handle and the point we see not at an parang ilang .
I did not see from the pic that this mandau had no flat blade , and that the carry band was complete I only saw that it was the old style carry band.
But scabbard style looks like 1850 or earlyer.

Here are some pics

VVV · 26th November 2006, 08:18 PM

Nice catch Ben!

I find the carved rib over the Tumpal (Tree of life) motif on the handle very unusual. Have you seen it before?

On the crowit and point I am not sure what you mean?
Maybe you could post some close ups of those parts of the blade and explain?
It's hard to see on the, quite dark, overall picture of the blade.

Don't you think the silver work resemble motifs found on Melanau hilts?

Bill, I think that the leech and taste of blood story is something made up outside Borneo.
But of course I might be wrong?
Like the story about the brass dots representing amount of taken heads etc.

Michael

Bill M · 26th November 2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Bill, I think that the leech and taste of blood story is something made up outside Borneo.
But of course I might be wrong?
Like the story about the brass dots representing amount of taken heads etc.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Always hard to tell what is an "urban rumor," and what is authentic. I got the idea about the leeches from "Iban Art," by Heppel.

The idea about the brass dots representing number of heads always seemed off to me because they were most likely in place when the blade was first made.

I guess it could be possible that a Dayak could have a blade made counting previous heads taken, though it would have been a lot of heads for so many dots.

Bill

VVV · 27th November 2006, 07:12 AM

Hi Bill,

Iban Art, published 2005, is a very nice book.
The leeches making the sword familiar drawing blood is in the book a saying that they attribute to Saribas, an area where one of the Iban groups live.
I think that's a cool but more recent explanation from the time after headhunting was practised.
The Parang Ilang is a sword that the Iban got from the Kayan in the 19th C (according to Shelford and other sources).
The original meaning for the motif IMO must be found among the Kayan.

Michael

Dajak · 27th November 2006, 08:59 AM

Hi thanks for your reply

The dots in the mandau is not an rumor there are some mandau s and pakayuns who have very litle amount off dots in the weapons that it could be true that this was in use for a little time for each head an dot.
( we see some mandau s with 100 dots or more but these are more to make the sword more fancy )

Take a look at this mandau is has very nice in lay but look at the other side the way they put in the dots

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mandau

The handle s the top is an milano handle second one land dayak third murut
and last kayan so I think the handle off this mandau is not melanau .

take a look at the crowits I never see 2 on an kayan mandau we find this combination the most at the Iban people with their mandau 's .

so this one might be one off the first type that the Iban did get from the kayan ( but not sure about this that what I like to find out any information about this is welcome )

Hi Michael what you say about the Heppel book I have to agree with you

The same for
the Zonneveld s book see the information about the parang nabur that is in it.
And the jimpul s that one in there is not an jimpul.

Ben

Bill M · 27th November 2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Bill,

Iban Art, published 2005, is a very nice book.
The leeches making the sword familiar drawing blood is in the book a saying that they attribute to Saribas, an area where one of the Iban groups live.
I think that's a cool but more recent explanation from the time after headhunting was practised.
The Parang Ilang is a sword that the Iban got from the Kayan in the 19th C (according to Shelford and other sources).
The original meaning for the motif IMO must be found among the Kayan.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Do you have an "original meaning for the motif found among the Kayan?" Or could it be the same?

It seems that a great number of these hilts have similar carvings, so it seems to be an important symbol.

Some symbols are rooted in antiquity and faithfully reproduced while others have lost their original meaning and are just copied because they have been there a long time.

I very much appreciate your knowledge and am going to post a few of my Dayak pieces in the hopes of learning more.

Curious Bill

25th November 2006, 07:56 PM	#1
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Battara yes I did get this one from ebay it is 19 centh and also rare with silver on the handle on the top off the handle same design as they use on heads It was very cheap it surprise me that it was not recognised as an important piece. Ben Attached Images Last edited by Dajak; 25th November 2006 at 08:37 PM.

26th November 2006, 05:23 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi thanks Here are some more pics the strange thing about the blade is that the blade is concave and the otherside is convex this is normal with an parang ilang but the crowit at the handle and the point we see not at an parang ilang . I did not see from the pic that this mandau had no flat blade , and that the carry band was complete I only saw that it was the old style carry band. But scabbard style looks like 1850 or earlyer. Here are some pics Attached Images

27th November 2006, 08:59 AM	#8
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi thanks for your reply The dots in the mandau is not an rumor there are some mandau s and pakayuns who have very litle amount off dots in the weapons that it could be true that this was in use for a little time for each head an dot. ( we see some mandau s with 100 dots or more but these are more to make the sword more fancy ) Take a look at this mandau is has very nice in lay but look at the other side the way they put in the dots http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mandau The handle s the top is an milano handle second one land dayak third murut and last kayan so I think the handle off this mandau is not melanau . take a look at the crowits I never see 2 on an kayan mandau we find this combination the most at the Iban people with their mandau 's . so this one might be one off the first type that the Iban did get from the kayan ( but not sure about this that what I like to find out any information about this is welcome ) Hi Michael what you say about the Heppel book I have to agree with you The same for the Zonneveld s book see the information about the parang nabur that is in it. And the jimpul s that one in there is not an jimpul. Ben Attached Images

26th November 2006, 12:37 AM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Congratulations Ben! Are those stylized leeches on the first hilt picture? I have heard that they were put there to give the Mandau a taste for blood.

26th November 2006, 08:18 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice catch Ben! I find the carved rib over the Tumpal (Tree of life) motif on the handle very unusual. Have you seen it before? On the crowit and point I am not sure what you mean? Maybe you could post some close ups of those parts of the blade and explain? It's hard to see on the, quite dark, overall picture of the blade. Don't you think the silver work resemble motifs found on Melanau hilts? Bill, I think that the leech and taste of blood story is something made up outside Borneo. But of course I might be wrong? Like the story about the brass dots representing amount of taken heads etc. Michael

27th November 2006, 07:12 AM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Bill, Iban Art, published 2005, is a very nice book. The leeches making the sword familiar drawing blood is in the book a saying that they attribute to Saribas, an area where one of the Iban groups live. I think that's a cool but more recent explanation from the time after headhunting was practised. The Parang Ilang is a sword that the Iban got from the Kayan in the 19th C (according to Shelford and other sources). The original meaning for the motif IMO must be found among the Kayan. Michael