Moro Pira for comment

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 03:06 PM

Since everyone is now asking questions, what about these two as well?
The upper one with a knife-like blade may well not fit into the pira category, although the hilt is typical for the style, while the lower one has a notched blade end and the tooled brass covering on the hilt reminds me of Lake Marano (sp?) region pieces that I've seen, and if so, would that still be Yakan?
I've had these a few years now and had a chance to clean them, with both having laminated blades, thus putting them back before the spring steel days at least.
Mike

Ian · 15th February 2005, 05:20 PM

Mike: I think you have two of the "newer" forms that may originate from Mindanao. The top one has a narrow blade profile that resembles some of the swords coming from the Kaolo tribe near Davao City in the province of Davao del Sur (eastern Mindanao). It does not look like a traditional Moro blade shape.

The bottom one has a traditional blade form (age hard to tell), and a brass hilt that resembles some of those seen on recent Maranao pieces from the Lake Lanao region. I suspect that some of the modern pira made in a traditional style are actually made in that area, which is the source for many of the contemporary, dressed-up kris seen on the market today.

Rick: Best I can tell, yours is an old pira from Basilan. The short puntos are more common, but I have now seen several old Yakan pira with the longer style of punto. Just a minor variation, I think.

Dan: Pretty pira and an example of recent manufacture (at least the hilt is recent). Hard to know where this one comes from -- probably Basilan but perhaps Lanao del Sur.

Federico · 15th February 2005, 09:29 PM

Dan how thick is the blade on your Pira? Had a new one a few years back from Mindanao, the horn hilt was nicely done, but the blade was paper thin. Hardened but paper thin.

Federico · 15th February 2005, 09:31 PM

Kris Cutlery is selling newly made Pira that they are labelling as being from Jolo, Sulu. Is there a significant Yakan population in Jolo?

Ian · 16th February 2005, 12:31 AM

Federico:

Census data (here http://www.ncca.gov.ph/culture&arts/...thno_yakan.htm) indicate that there are about 120,000 Yakan, with the vast majority on Basilan, a much smaller fraction in Zamboanga, and smatterings elsewhere. No mention of any Yakan in Jolo.

Ian.

Federico · 16th February 2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Federico:

Census data (here http://www.ncca.gov.ph/culture&arts/...thno_yakan.htm) indicate that there are about 120,000 Yakan, with the vast majority on Basilan, a much smaller fraction in Zamboanga, and smatterings elsewhere. No mention of any Yakan in Jolo.

Ian.

That is what I was under the impression, but for a number of years now Kris Cutlery has had new made Pira labelled as being from Jolo. If Pira are Yakan specific, then are these just modern interpretations, similar to Mindanao made barongs today?

zamboanga · 16th February 2005, 02:58 AM

there are no yakans in sulu. but, there are tausugs in basilan. the present governor (Akbar) there is a tausug while the congressman is yakan (Salapuddin). yakans are found in municipalities of lamitan, sumisip, and the capital, isabela, while the tausugs are found in tipo-tipo. rarely would a yakan or tausug venture into the other's enclave unless he has a death wish.

there is a felt strain in tausug-yakan relations which stretches way back. to the tausugs, this is attributed to the fact that the yakans played a minor role during the moro wars. to quote from a tausug friend their parents always tell them to "never trust a yakan." to the yakans, this is attributed to migration of tausugs to their province (possibily to escape feuds or wars in jolo).

even in modern times, tausug-yakan feuds have been recorded in basilan. even the death of LTP Chairman Tugung in the 80s is attributed to this feud.

as to jolo-made modern interpretations of the pira, that is quite possible.

15th February 2005, 03:06 PM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Since everyone is now asking questions, what about these two as well? The upper one with a knife-like blade may well not fit into the pira category, although the hilt is typical for the style, while the lower one has a notched blade end and the tooled brass covering on the hilt reminds me of Lake Marano (sp?) region pieces that I've seen, and if so, would that still be Yakan? I've had these a few years now and had a chance to clean them, with both having laminated blades, thus putting them back before the spring steel days at least. Mike Attached Images

15th February 2005, 05:20 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,469	Responses to Mike, Rick, Dan ... Mike: I think you have two of the "newer" forms that may originate from Mindanao. The top one has a narrow blade profile that resembles some of the swords coming from the Kaolo tribe near Davao City in the province of Davao del Sur (eastern Mindanao). It does not look like a traditional Moro blade shape. The bottom one has a traditional blade form (age hard to tell), and a brass hilt that resembles some of those seen on recent Maranao pieces from the Lake Lanao region. I suspect that some of the modern pira made in a traditional style are actually made in that area, which is the source for many of the contemporary, dressed-up kris seen on the market today. Rick: Best I can tell, yours is an old pira from Basilan. The short puntos are more common, but I have now seen several old Yakan pira with the longer style of punto. Just a minor variation, I think. Dan: Pretty pira and an example of recent manufacture (at least the hilt is recent). Hard to know where this one comes from -- probably Basilan but perhaps Lanao del Sur.

16th February 2005, 02:58 AM	#7
zamboanga Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: zamboanga city, philippines Posts: 132	yakans there are no yakans in sulu. but, there are tausugs in basilan. the present governor (Akbar) there is a tausug while the congressman is yakan (Salapuddin). yakans are found in municipalities of lamitan, sumisip, and the capital, isabela, while the tausugs are found in tipo-tipo. rarely would a yakan or tausug venture into the other's enclave unless he has a death wish. there is a felt strain in tausug-yakan relations which stretches way back. to the tausugs, this is attributed to the fact that the yakans played a minor role during the moro wars. to quote from a tausug friend their parents always tell them to "never trust a yakan." to the yakans, this is attributed to migration of tausugs to their province (possibily to escape feuds or wars in jolo). even in modern times, tausug-yakan feuds have been recorded in basilan. even the death of LTP Chairman Tugung in the 80s is attributed to this feud. as to jolo-made modern interpretations of the pira, that is quite possible.

15th February 2005, 09:29 PM	#3
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Dan how thick is the blade on your Pira? Had a new one a few years back from Mindanao, the horn hilt was nicely done, but the blade was paper thin. Hardened but paper thin.

15th February 2005, 09:31 PM	#4
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Kris Cutlery is selling newly made Pira that they are labelling as being from Jolo, Sulu. Is there a significant Yakan population in Jolo?

16th February 2005, 12:31 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,469	Federico: Census data (here http://www.ncca.gov.ph/culture&arts/...thno_yakan.htm) indicate that there are about 120,000 Yakan, with the vast majority on Basilan, a much smaller fraction in Zamboanga, and smatterings elsewhere. No mention of any Yakan in Jolo. Ian.