What can you tell me about this sword?

Jim McDougall · 20th November 2006, 12:15 AM

Thank you so much Kirill and Jeff for the kind words!!

Actually I cannot claim expertise or specialty in Scottish basket hilts, but I very much appreciate the compliment and confidence.

I have of course researched them in degree over the years, and have a personal affinity for them, although they are quite out of reach monetarily to collect, for me at least

This example submitted by Double D is magnificent!!! Especially as it remains in apparantly untouched and static condition. While admittedly looking quite rough, it reflects the character and history held proudly in its patination and wear. I would beg the owner not to touch it, and leave it alone, save curbing any active rust if should be the case.

I agree with Jeff, that the style of the hilt is basically similar to those found in Stirling work, however these Scottish hilts have significant variation so it is typically difficult to assign precisely to region. I think the most significant feature that I notice here is the guard arm being attached by screw to the pommel. In the resources and notes I reviewed, I cannot locate any examples of purely Scottish basket hilts using screws for pommel attachment.
This suggests English influence, recalling this method of attachment used most commonly on their so called 'mortuary' hilts as well as many 17th c. sword forms.
In "British Basket Hilted Swords" (Dr.Cyril Mazansky, 2005, p.29), the author notes "...certain Scottish hilts incorporate features of English design", however does not specifically address the pommel screw attachment.

I also agree with Jeff on the blade, clearly of Solingen trade, and of form favored by Scots. The blade itself appears of probably third quarter 17th c. form, and the 'Andrea Ferara' along with the 'running wolf' support same.
It is interesting to note that the running wolf (of Passau) became quite popularly used throughout the blade trade, and also was commonly used in England by the German smiths at Hounslow during the mid 17th c.

The pommel on this sword is closest to Scottish forms of double cone shape.

I would suggest this beautiful basket hilt was probably furbished in the early years of the 18th c., just as Jeff noted, and possibly earlier, and most likely in Scotland and again noting the distinct English influence.

Thanks very much guys!!!

All the best,
Jim

P.S. Thank you too Rhys Michael, just noticed your post. I too wish Eljay would come in on this. Him and I collected together back in the 70's and his expertise on British swords of these periods is phenomenal!! He would indeed have the final word

RhysMichael · 20th November 2006, 02:00 AM

Last time I corresponded with ElJay he was in Thailand and I believe he still is. I was lucky enough to handle some of the baskethilts he made and the are indeed superb. If I were having a contemporary baskethilt made or restoration done to an older one I am sure he would be at the top of my list of people to do it.

Jeff D · 20th November 2006, 02:36 AM

Hi RhysMichael,

Since you mentioned Eljay, here is a English baskethilt that he bought and restored in the 70's (I wonder if Jim was bidding against him

). Unfortunately the photo is poor, it is from the dealer I bought it from in the 90's. The sword is in deep storage so I cannot get a better one. I post it here to illustrate the screw in the pommel that Jim mentioned earlier. This is seen in the English mortuary and baskethilts. I also posted it to reaffirm your confidence in Eljay's excellent restoration skills.

Thanks also to Jim for the info.

Jeff.

Jim McDougall · 20th November 2006, 02:40 AM

Hi Rhys Michael,
He is indeed still in Thailand. As I mentioned, when him and I were busy collecting and studying British cavalry patterns, he was always busy working on the swords. His passion for repairing and deeply studying the swords themselves led to his amazing talents in restoration .What is key with him is his outstanding integrity in his work on these weapons.
Best regards,
Jim

The Double D · 20th November 2006, 04:25 AM

Thank you for your comments Gentlemen, I will pass them and any others that you may have to the Gentleman. He has a small Musuem of Anglo Zulu and Anglo Boer war artifacts, but his Scot's heritige causes him to have this sword.

Tim Simmons · 20th November 2006, 07:21 AM

I still have doubts of the Jacobean designation here. Look how clean the forte section of this blade is. The only corrosion is at the blade tip. To me there seems quite a contrast with the hilt. Compere with the blade and hilt match with this one.
http://www.trocadero.com/faganarms/i...tem424534.html

fernando · 20th November 2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Look how clean the forte section of this blade is. The only corrosion is at the blade tip. To me there seems quite a contrast with the hilt.

This may be silly, but it could be that the blade area susceptible to have markings was cleaned, in later times, to provide for a clearer examination of all the symbols ?!
The riveting of the tang looks coherent with the pommel, in age.
fernando

Tim Simmons · 20th November 2006, 07:47 PM

That is ture the riviting does look old. I cannot put my finger on it but the whole forte section and the fullers just do not look 18th century to me. You have to admit that the basket has unmatched corrosion. Scots things and a Jacobite artistic revival was very popular at the end of the 19th century in the UK because of Queen Victorias love of Scotland. I may well be wrong but that basket is at odds with the blade to me.

20th November 2006, 02:36 AM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi RhysMichael, Since you mentioned Eljay, here is a English baskethilt that he bought and restored in the 70's (I wonder if Jim was bidding against him ). Unfortunately the photo is poor, it is from the dealer I bought it from in the 90's. The sword is in deep storage so I cannot get a better one. I post it here to illustrate the screw in the pommel that Jim mentioned earlier. This is seen in the English mortuary and baskethilts. I also posted it to reaffirm your confidence in Eljay's excellent restoration skills. Thanks also to Jim for the info. Jeff. Attached Images

20th November 2006, 07:21 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I still have doubts of the Jacobean designation here. Look how clean the forte section of this blade is. The only corrosion is at the blade tip. To me there seems quite a contrast with the hilt. Compere with the blade and hilt match with this one. http://www.trocadero.com/faganarms/i...tem424534.html Last edited by Tim Simmons; 20th November 2006 at 10:30 AM. Reason: adding info

20th November 2006, 07:47 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	That is ture the riviting does look old. I cannot put my finger on it but the whole forte section and the fullers just do not look 18th century to me. You have to admit that the basket has unmatched corrosion. Scots things and a Jacobite artistic revival was very popular at the end of the 19th century in the UK because of Queen Victorias love of Scotland. I may well be wrong but that basket is at odds with the blade to me. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 20th November 2006 at 08:16 PM. Reason: spelling

20th November 2006, 12:15 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thank you so much Kirill and Jeff for the kind words!! Actually I cannot claim expertise or specialty in Scottish basket hilts, but I very much appreciate the compliment and confidence. I have of course researched them in degree over the years, and have a personal affinity for them, although they are quite out of reach monetarily to collect, for me at least This example submitted by Double D is magnificent!!! Especially as it remains in apparantly untouched and static condition. While admittedly looking quite rough, it reflects the character and history held proudly in its patination and wear. I would beg the owner not to touch it, and leave it alone, save curbing any active rust if should be the case. I agree with Jeff, that the style of the hilt is basically similar to those found in Stirling work, however these Scottish hilts have significant variation so it is typically difficult to assign precisely to region. I think the most significant feature that I notice here is the guard arm being attached by screw to the pommel. In the resources and notes I reviewed, I cannot locate any examples of purely Scottish basket hilts using screws for pommel attachment. This suggests English influence, recalling this method of attachment used most commonly on their so called 'mortuary' hilts as well as many 17th c. sword forms. In "British Basket Hilted Swords" (Dr.Cyril Mazansky, 2005, p.29), the author notes "...certain Scottish hilts incorporate features of English design", however does not specifically address the pommel screw attachment. I also agree with Jeff on the blade, clearly of Solingen trade, and of form favored by Scots. The blade itself appears of probably third quarter 17th c. form, and the 'Andrea Ferara' along with the 'running wolf' support same. It is interesting to note that the running wolf (of Passau) became quite popularly used throughout the blade trade, and also was commonly used in England by the German smiths at Hounslow during the mid 17th c. The pommel on this sword is closest to Scottish forms of double cone shape. I would suggest this beautiful basket hilt was probably furbished in the early years of the 18th c., just as Jeff noted, and possibly earlier, and most likely in Scotland and again noting the distinct English influence. Thanks very much guys!!! All the best, Jim P.S. Thank you too Rhys Michael, just noticed your post. I too wish Eljay would come in on this. Him and I collected together back in the 70's and his expertise on British swords of these periods is phenomenal!! He would indeed have the final word

20th November 2006, 02:00 AM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Last time I corresponded with ElJay he was in Thailand and I believe he still is. I was lucky enough to handle some of the baskethilts he made and the are indeed superb. If I were having a contemporary baskethilt made or restoration done to an older one I am sure he would be at the top of my list of people to do it.

20th November 2006, 02:40 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Rhys Michael, He is indeed still in Thailand. As I mentioned, when him and I were busy collecting and studying British cavalry patterns, he was always busy working on the swords. His passion for repairing and deeply studying the swords themselves led to his amazing talents in restoration .What is key with him is his outstanding integrity in his work on these weapons. Best regards, Jim

20th November 2006, 04:25 AM	#5
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	Thank you for your comments Gentlemen, I will pass them and any others that you may have to the Gentleman. He has a small Musuem of Anglo Zulu and Anglo Boer war artifacts, but his Scot's heritige causes him to have this sword.