Ganja !

Rick · 17th November 2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Rick,

I don't think anyone of us can prove the reason for the ganja being there so why not have a poll?
I vote for alt. 3, the spiritual reason.

Michael

Done Michael .

This may be an unsolvable question; but it's worth some discussion; so please share your choice after you vote .

Rick

VVV · 17th November 2006, 03:48 PM

Now I don't know how to vote anymore because you have two spiritual alternatives?

But I go for the lock of the spirit which is closest to what I think is the reason.
I think it's talismanic with a lot of different symbolism.
Kind of to balance the spiritual forces of the Keris.
As Shahrial brought up the Linggam/Yoni dualism is one probable factor (on the other side of the ganja it's the pesi/ukiran = same thing).
I also find it probable that it is a kind of lock, as well as a protective shield from, the Naga, or metaphysical forces in the Keris.
But I am sure that there are several other reasons and explanations/speculations?

Michael

Rick · 17th November 2006, 04:28 PM

Yikes!
Sorry to complicate things Michael.

The first option refers to the entire keris as a spiritual expression of life i.e. the ganja and pesi being a male female concept and all that entails.

The other refers to the belief held by some that an empu can imbue a keris with certain powers and the ganja acts like the stopper on a bottle holding the power in the keris.

Multiple answers are fine .

VVV · 17th November 2006, 04:48 PM

I have alread voted now and there was only one alternative possible per vote.
Maybe it should have been only two alternatives then?

1) Metaphysical reasons (symbolism, lock etc.)
2) Physical reasons (construction, practical function etc.)

Michael

Lew · 17th November 2006, 05:23 PM

As far as I am concerned the keris originated as a weapon first. Therefore when constructing a weapon function and form are thought out first any religious meaning or embelishment would be secondary.

Lew

Rick · 17th November 2006, 07:14 PM

So if it's a construction feature as you suggest Lew; what did it accomplish for the keris ?

Michael, was it physical construction (your answer 2) that morphed from the initial practical application into the metaphysical over time?

Or visa versa; constructed initially and for the purpose of expressing these metaphysical attributes?

Henk · 17th November 2006, 07:44 PM

I also vote for .3 the spiritual option.

When the pesi of the keris is broken, the keris is damaged and for the believers in the spiritual powers of keris such a keris has become even an unpredictable and dangerous object.
A ganja with a small hole that shows the pesi, called a "lotus cup" is pouring good luck over the owner of the keris. When the ganja has two lotus cups, one at each side the luck is pouring out double.
I think Michael is in the right corner.

A ganja is of course in my opinion a construction technique with a purpose, brought up by man, but what purpose? That's the question. Very nice discussion.

VVV · 18th November 2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

So if it's a construction feature as you suggest Lew; what did it accomplish for the keris ?

Michael, was it physical construction (your answer 2) that morphed from the initial practical application into the metaphysical over time?

Or visa versa; constructed initially and for the purpose of expressing these metaphysical attributes?

Sorry Rick,

I first noticed you question to me now.
I think/speculate that it is the metaphysical alternative.
For some reason most of the symbolism and talismanic features on a Keris is concentrated on the ganja?
I neither think there is any construction reason for the greneng, lambe gaja etc?
Why isn't a ganja something developed in other cultures if it has a practical purpose?
When I practice martial arts I sometimes use cheap, one piece aluminium practice daggers, without ganja or guard, and thrust them full force into tree trunks with all kind of grips. This to strenghten my grip and practice impact and striking angles. I don't need any built in cushion or protection for this?
But if I would ever use a blade in a life and death situation I would use all the metaphysical help I could think of.
The more, the better, in case I didn't know which talismanic symbol that really worked according to my beliefs.

Michael

View Poll Results: The Ganja ?
An expression of faith, spiritualism ?	0	0%
A construction technique ?	4	57.14%
A lock for the spirit in the keris ?	3	42.86%
Other .......	0	0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

17th November 2006, 03:48 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Now I don't know how to vote anymore because you have two spiritual alternatives? But I go for the lock of the spirit which is closest to what I think is the reason. I think it's talismanic with a lot of different symbolism. Kind of to balance the spiritual forces of the Keris. As Shahrial brought up the Linggam/Yoni dualism is one probable factor (on the other side of the ganja it's the pesi/ukiran = same thing). I also find it probable that it is a kind of lock, as well as a protective shield from, the Naga, or metaphysical forces in the Keris. But I am sure that there are several other reasons and explanations/speculations? Michael Last edited by VVV; 17th November 2006 at 04:20 PM. Reason: Made my choice

17th November 2006, 04:28 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Yikes! Sorry to complicate things Michael. The first option refers to the entire keris as a spiritual expression of life i.e. the ganja and pesi being a male female concept and all that entails. The other refers to the belief held by some that an empu can imbue a keris with certain powers and the ganja acts like the stopper on a bottle holding the power in the keris. Multiple answers are fine .

17th November 2006, 04:48 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I have alread voted now and there was only one alternative possible per vote. Maybe it should have been only two alternatives then? 1) Metaphysical reasons (symbolism, lock etc.) 2) Physical reasons (construction, practical function etc.) Michael

17th November 2006, 05:23 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	As far as I am concerned the keris originated as a weapon first. Therefore when constructing a weapon function and form are thought out first any religious meaning or embelishment would be secondary. Lew

17th November 2006, 07:14 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	So if it's a construction feature as you suggest Lew; what did it accomplish for the keris ? Michael, was it physical construction (your answer 2) that morphed from the initial practical application into the metaphysical over time? Or visa versa; constructed initially and for the purpose of expressing these metaphysical attributes?

17th November 2006, 07:44 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I also vote for .3 the spiritual option. When the pesi of the keris is broken, the keris is damaged and for the believers in the spiritual powers of keris such a keris has become even an unpredictable and dangerous object. A ganja with a small hole that shows the pesi, called a "lotus cup" is pouring good luck over the owner of the keris. When the ganja has two lotus cups, one at each side the luck is pouring out double. I think Michael is in the right corner. A ganja is of course in my opinion a construction technique with a purpose, brought up by man, but what purpose? That's the question. Very nice discussion.