Two Tulwars For Comment

Hrthuma ibn Marwan · 8th November 2006, 10:42 AM

very nice imo

Would love to have something like it. Nice patterns as well.

But the tang on the second sword, lookks kind of thin in accordance with the blade?

Lew · 8th November 2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrthuma ibn Marwan

very nice imo

Would love to have something like it. Nice patterns as well.

But the tang on the second sword, lookks kind of thin in accordance with the blade?

Can you be more specific about the tang. There is no picture of a tang?

Lew

Jim McDougall · 11th November 2006, 03:26 AM

Hi Lew,
I wanted to add some data I have been able to come up with on the first tulwar with the fluted hilt, although Jens has already pretty concisely observed the essentials. As Jens has noted, these are reasonably uncommon and represented by only a few in various references and collections.

The vertically fluted hilt grip is very much like an extremely interesting item I found in "India: Art & Culture 1300-1900" by Stuart Cary Welch. It is item #169 which is a Mughal silver antimony flask of the mid 17th century, stated from either Agra or Delhi. The flask itself is shaped remarkably similar to these hilt grips with the same shape, vertical fluting and stylized acanthus leaves . Actually the flask itself actually looks like a tulwar hilt grip.

It is noted that, as we have discussed before, the style of this flask seems to carry architectural influence, something that occurs in so many instances in the elements of weapon hilts. Reference is made to the upward swelling of Mughal domes (many of which have vertical ribbing) and the "almost baroque columns" of the Sawon Pavilion in Delhi's Red Fort.

Apparantly this flask was used to hold antimony as found in a solution of kohl which was the black application placed around the eyes for protection from the sun.

It would appear that the script markings on the blade are in Gujerati and as Jens noted, are numerals, I believe a 7 and a 5. This suggests of course arsenal markings. Gujerati I also believe, was used as a trade script in nemerous regions including Rajasthan, among others. The crudely scratched imitation of the 'Genoan' sickle marks could not possibly have been applied as 'forgeries', but it my opinion were applied possibly by an owner attempting to ascribe the significance talismanically. I think that these markings receiving so much emphasis on trade blades, of course for quality, may have been misinterpreted by native individuals as carrying talismanic powers.
This of course is simply my own opinion and would require a great deal more research to support in detail.

A tulwar with one of these interesting hilts appears in "On Damascus Steel" by Dr. L.Figiel (1991, p.56, #PS9) and has the distinct vertical fluting and is of the silver or white metal typical of them. There are no acanthus leaves present however, and I'm not sure if these occur on other examples found.
The example is identified as 18th century, and carries a bit more flourish than the very clean geometric nature of your tulwar.

I am inclined to agree that Rajasthan or more northern Delhi, and likely mid 19th century may be the best attribution for this very attractive tulwar.
I hope this will be of some help.

All the best,
Jim

Lew · 11th November 2006, 03:33 AM

Thanks Jim and Jens

Lew

Jim McDougall · 11th November 2006, 09:47 PM

You're welcome Lew!

8th November 2006, 10:42 AM	#1
Hrthuma ibn Marwan Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in my study Posts: 18	very nice imo Would love to have something like it. Nice patterns as well. But the tang on the second sword, lookks kind of thin in accordance with the blade?

11th November 2006, 03:26 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Lew, I wanted to add some data I have been able to come up with on the first tulwar with the fluted hilt, although Jens has already pretty concisely observed the essentials. As Jens has noted, these are reasonably uncommon and represented by only a few in various references and collections. The vertically fluted hilt grip is very much like an extremely interesting item I found in "India: Art & Culture 1300-1900" by Stuart Cary Welch. It is item #169 which is a Mughal silver antimony flask of the mid 17th century, stated from either Agra or Delhi. The flask itself is shaped remarkably similar to these hilt grips with the same shape, vertical fluting and stylized acanthus leaves . Actually the flask itself actually looks like a tulwar hilt grip. It is noted that, as we have discussed before, the style of this flask seems to carry architectural influence, something that occurs in so many instances in the elements of weapon hilts. Reference is made to the upward swelling of Mughal domes (many of which have vertical ribbing) and the "almost baroque columns" of the Sawon Pavilion in Delhi's Red Fort. Apparantly this flask was used to hold antimony as found in a solution of kohl which was the black application placed around the eyes for protection from the sun. It would appear that the script markings on the blade are in Gujerati and as Jens noted, are numerals, I believe a 7 and a 5. This suggests of course arsenal markings. Gujerati I also believe, was used as a trade script in nemerous regions including Rajasthan, among others. The crudely scratched imitation of the 'Genoan' sickle marks could not possibly have been applied as 'forgeries', but it my opinion were applied possibly by an owner attempting to ascribe the significance talismanically. I think that these markings receiving so much emphasis on trade blades, of course for quality, may have been misinterpreted by native individuals as carrying talismanic powers. This of course is simply my own opinion and would require a great deal more research to support in detail. A tulwar with one of these interesting hilts appears in "On Damascus Steel" by Dr. L.Figiel (1991, p.56, #PS9) and has the distinct vertical fluting and is of the silver or white metal typical of them. There are no acanthus leaves present however, and I'm not sure if these occur on other examples found. The example is identified as 18th century, and carries a bit more flourish than the very clean geometric nature of your tulwar. I am inclined to agree that Rajasthan or more northern Delhi, and likely mid 19th century may be the best attribution for this very attractive tulwar. I hope this will be of some help. All the best, Jim

11th November 2006, 03:33 AM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Thanks Jim and Jens Lew

11th November 2006, 09:47 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	You're welcome Lew!