Borneo ?? Sumatra ??

[Rick]

Here is a similar wire braid (without the twist) on a kris .
Sulu ?
Maguindanao?

[Dajak]

Hi Rick that is an nice could be used in North Borneo
I have an murut sword from North Borneo whit an moro Binding

[Dajak]

Murut

[Rick]

I tell you Dajak this Borneo/Sulu/Mindanao Moro line seems very blurred.
In a lot of ways the blade on the subject piece of this thread reminds me of a Bangkung.

Sometimes I wonder if we will ever be able to sort it all out .

[Ian]

Rick:

IIRC bangkung is a Sulawesi term, at least that is how it appears to be characterized in v. Zonneveld. The blade form, however, is quite widespread -- from Sumatra to Borneo to Mindanao, as well as Sulawesi. In the Philippines, Cato states that the bangkung is mainly a weapon of the Yakan on Basilan. However, this blade form is seen quite commonly on Lumad swords of the Bagobo/Kaolu, while the ginunting of Negros Occidental (Visayas) also has some similarity to a bangkung.

Ian

[Dajak]

Hi Ian

For us from overseas in the Netherlands we call all the Philipinne krissen Sundang moro krissen or moro kris
sorry for that


Don t keep the Zonneveld book to much as a reference on Borneo Items because he made a few mistakes in it that I already discussed with him .

HE DID PUT WITH THE JIMPULS AN BLADE THAT IS NOT AN JIMPUL .
I ASK HIM WHY YOU DO THIS HIS ;

...... ANSWER WAS I COULD NOT FIND ANY DOCUMENTATION ON THIS TYPE OFF SWORD ........

So in my opinnion do things like this is wrong .

The problem with this now that some one with an blade form like pic 165 on page 57 thinks he have an Jimpul.




regards Ben

[VVV]

I disagree a bit on some things that Ben brings up even if I agree with his other statements.
First I don't think that the parang from Nieuwenhuis is that close in style (first picture attached).
Then I don't agree that f.i. searching the Leiden archives clearly proves that this sword is from Borneo? I have attached two pictures, the first collected on Borneo and the second in Jambi.
There was a lot of migration in this region. If we can agree on that this isn't a Dayak sword, but Malay, then it could either have been brought to Borneo when somebody from Sumatra moved to Borneo?
I assume that when people moved around between the islands they brought with them their weapons?
Or it could have been produced in Borneo by a blademaker who had moved from Sumatra to Borneo?
Does that make it a Borneo sword???
Is it the style or where it was produced that decides the origin?
Is a balisong made by a Filipino in LA, in a traditional Filipino style, an American knife?
The braiding I also think was made on Borneo. Depending on the scenarios it could have been made later or when produced.

Michael

PS Ben, I wanted to see the part of the blade closest to the tip.