Tulwar European blade? for comment

katana · 1st November 2006, 08:15 PM

Nice Tulwar....I have to agree with Jens ...I dont think this is a Euro blade either

Hrthuma ibn Marwan · 1st November 2006, 09:08 PM

Its strange though.. Genoa is a city in Italy..

A very nice sword btw

katana · 1st November 2006, 10:02 PM

Genoa is a port and has had regular trading contact with India for many centuries......I cannot find any information on swordsmithing in Genoa....so it does seem strange that it is on the blade.....unless it has something to do with the trade link...

Rivkin · 2nd November 2006, 02:44 AM

As far as I know, "Genoa" is considered one of the possible "parents" of "gurda". According to Lenz "Marks on weapons" and Astvatzaturjan originally such mark was indeed placed on swords from Genoa, however then it was adopted by germans and later copied throughout the word.

The mark here does not seem genuine enough since "jaws" (two eyebrow-like lines) are too schematic. Locally made ?

Jim McDougall · 2nd November 2006, 03:34 AM

I completely agree with Jens, this appears to be a well made Indian interpretation of probably European sabre blades. The stepped blade near the base seems an Indian characteristic on some tulwar blades.
The 'Genoa' is an application often employed on numerous trade blades implying degree of quality and was often associated with the well known 'sickle' marks . These marks looking like toothed half circles in parallel often appeared with 'Genoa' or sometimes 'fringia' and without words as well, and are known to have used in Styrian and Caucasian bladeworks (where the term gurda denotes 'good blade' I am told).

HUSAR · 2nd November 2006, 06:19 PM

Hello
Thank you for comments, now I`m more sure that this is not an European blade… According to GENOA marks or other mentioned by Jim please find some on the picture I have some blades on which is even wrong spelling as GNEOA and GANEA … Imported blades from Italy were very often used in Polish swords.
Regards
Husar

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd November 2006, 06:30 PM

Hi Husar,

Yes it is a bit tricky, but thank you for the illustration. I am especially interested in one at the bottom to the right. Have alook at this one.

2nd November 2006, 06:19 PM	#6
HUSAR Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 80	Hello Thank you for comments, now I`m more sure that this is not an European blade… According to GENOA marks or other mentioned by Jim please find some on the picture I have some blades on which is even wrong spelling as GNEOA and GANEA … Imported blades from Italy were very often used in Polish swords. Regards Husar Attached Images

2nd November 2006, 06:30 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Husar, Yes it is a bit tricky, but thank you for the illustration. I am especially interested in one at the bottom to the right. Have alook at this one. Attached Images

1st November 2006, 08:15 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Nice Tulwar....I have to agree with Jens ...I dont think this is a Euro blade either

1st November 2006, 09:08 PM	#2
Hrthuma ibn Marwan Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in my study Posts: 18	Its strange though.. Genoa is a city in Italy.. A very nice sword btw

1st November 2006, 10:02 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Genoa is a port and has had regular trading contact with India for many centuries......I cannot find any information on swordsmithing in Genoa....so it does seem strange that it is on the blade.....unless it has something to do with the trade link...

2nd November 2006, 02:44 AM	#4
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	As far as I know, "Genoa" is considered one of the possible "parents" of "gurda". According to Lenz "Marks on weapons" and Astvatzaturjan originally such mark was indeed placed on swords from Genoa, however then it was adopted by germans and later copied throughout the word. The mark here does not seem genuine enough since "jaws" (two eyebrow-like lines) are too schematic. Locally made ?

2nd November 2006, 03:34 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I completely agree with Jens, this appears to be a well made Indian interpretation of probably European sabre blades. The stepped blade near the base seems an Indian characteristic on some tulwar blades. The 'Genoa' is an application often employed on numerous trade blades implying degree of quality and was often associated with the well known 'sickle' marks . These marks looking like toothed half circles in parallel often appeared with 'Genoa' or sometimes 'fringia' and without words as well, and are known to have used in Styrian and Caucasian bladeworks (where the term gurda denotes 'good blade' I am told).