Interesting Flyssa

Emanuel · 31st October 2006, 08:47 PM

Jim and Ham, thanks for the references, I will look them up.
Some interesting questions reguarding the adaptation of the Ottoman yataghan (BSY or regular kind) to the flyssa form are why was it done? Why straighten the blade and add a back edge? If a cavalry weapon, why not simply keep the nimcha and the other known berber sword form with the peculiar tip.

Further, where did the zoomorphic pommel as it looks on refined flyssa come from? Its specific form is not seen on other swords, even if the lobed shaped has Ottoman precedents. My point is that it must have had a period of development independent of Ottoman examples.

If the Iflissen and other tribes had a lucrative industry producing these swords, why import or keep mimicking yataghan blades?
Too many unanswered questions in my mind to convince me fully

but if the decorations are Turkic as Ham says, then the example I posted really gives me pause to reconsider. The article by Lacoste-Dujardin is the only published material I could find dedicated to these swords...the literature on them really ought to be updated.

These question really should be debated over a bottle of good liquor as Ariel so often suggests

would make for some good times.
Emanuel

katana · 10th April 2007, 05:59 PM

Hi Emanuel,
found this web page....in French....Babel-Fish translation not too good so I've linked to the French page.....some interesting images at the base of the page....

http://lunis1.free.fr/article.php3?id_article=7

Regards David

Emanuel · 10th April 2007, 07:07 PM

Hi David,
Thanks a lot the link, the whole site is very informative on the Kabyles, and the French is not a problem. I already acquired the treatise by Camille Lacoste-Desjardins "Sabres Kabyles". It is the most comprehensive and complete work on so subject that I could find. Quite extensive, and it is the principle source for the website you linked, and that of Pierre-Louis Cavaillé: http://blade.japet.com/flissa1.htm

I've been studying it for a while, and it could do with some updating. One area requiring further research revolves around an ancient stele depicting a warrior with a flyssa-like weapon in hand. I am currently looking through archaeological reports from diggs in Algeria, hoping to find some remains of pre-1800 Kabyle weapons. No luck yet, but there is a lot of info which leads me to continue questioning some of the assumptions presently held about the flyssa and the Kabyles.

If you're interested, I could provide you with a copy of it. It is in French though and you'd have to spend a lot of time with translator bots.

In the future I plan to invest a lot more time into this research and perhaps publish some modest work of my own

stay tuned my friend

All the best,
Emanuel

katana · 10th April 2007, 10:11 PM

Hi Emanuel,
sorry there was no new info

But when I found it ...you were the guy I thought of.....I don't think it's much of a secret how much you like Flyssa's

Please, when you get the chance, send me a copy.....my French is poor....but good enough that I can order a beer in France

If you do get to publish your work and would like it in PDF format.... I'm sure I can help....I have the necessary 'professional' PDF software but not the 'expertise'....but I'm sure I could 'muddle through' and do a good job.

Regards David

ward · 10th April 2007, 10:22 PM

Hello

Where can I get that article about flyssas

thx

Ward

Emanuel · 10th April 2007, 10:23 PM

Haaha thanks David!

I am indeed quite obsessed with this sword, even if I've never held one. Article coming up, and thanks for the offer

Emanuel

10th April 2007, 07:07 PM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi David, Thanks a lot the link, the whole site is very informative on the Kabyles, and the French is not a problem. I already acquired the treatise by Camille Lacoste-Desjardins "Sabres Kabyles". It is the most comprehensive and complete work on so subject that I could find. Quite extensive, and it is the principle source for the website you linked, and that of Pierre-Louis Cavaillé: http://blade.japet.com/flissa1.htm I've been studying it for a while, and it could do with some updating. One area requiring further research revolves around an ancient stele depicting a warrior with a flyssa-like weapon in hand. I am currently looking through archaeological reports from diggs in Algeria, hoping to find some remains of pre-1800 Kabyle weapons. No luck yet, but there is a lot of info which leads me to continue questioning some of the assumptions presently held about the flyssa and the Kabyles. If you're interested, I could provide you with a copy of it. It is in French though and you'd have to spend a lot of time with translator bots. In the future I plan to invest a lot more time into this research and perhaps publish some modest work of my own stay tuned my friend All the best, Emanuel Last edited by Manolo; 10th April 2007 at 10:07 PM. Reason: typo

31st October 2006, 08:47 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Jim and Ham, thanks for the references, I will look them up. Some interesting questions reguarding the adaptation of the Ottoman yataghan (BSY or regular kind) to the flyssa form are why was it done? Why straighten the blade and add a back edge? If a cavalry weapon, why not simply keep the nimcha and the other known berber sword form with the peculiar tip. Further, where did the zoomorphic pommel as it looks on refined flyssa come from? Its specific form is not seen on other swords, even if the lobed shaped has Ottoman precedents. My point is that it must have had a period of development independent of Ottoman examples. If the Iflissen and other tribes had a lucrative industry producing these swords, why import or keep mimicking yataghan blades? Too many unanswered questions in my mind to convince me fully but if the decorations are Turkic as Ham says, then the example I posted really gives me pause to reconsider. The article by Lacoste-Dujardin is the only published material I could find dedicated to these swords...the literature on them really ought to be updated. These question really should be debated over a bottle of good liquor as Ariel so often suggests would make for some good times. Emanuel

10th April 2007, 05:59 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Emanuel, found this web page....in French....Babel-Fish translation not too good so I've linked to the French page.....some interesting images at the base of the page.... http://lunis1.free.fr/article.php3?id_article=7 Regards David

10th April 2007, 10:11 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Emanuel, sorry there was no new info But when I found it ...you were the guy I thought of.....I don't think it's much of a secret how much you like Flyssa's Please, when you get the chance, send me a copy.....my French is poor....but good enough that I can order a beer in France If you do get to publish your work and would like it in PDF format.... I'm sure I can help....I have the necessary 'professional' PDF software but not the 'expertise'....but I'm sure I could 'muddle through' and do a good job. Regards David

10th April 2007, 10:22 PM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Hello Where can I get that article about flyssas thx Ward

10th April 2007, 10:23 PM	#6
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Haaha thanks David! I am indeed quite obsessed with this sword, even if I've never held one. Article coming up, and thanks for the offer Emanuel