Keris found in Denmark

VVV · 31st October 2006, 05:31 PM

Hi Ian,

Thanks for your explanation.
I also find what you exemplify quite odd.
There is one Kris in Leiden, collected in Sulu, that looks like it has just as small pommel as mine.
It also looks like as if the hilt on the Kris "Andus" in E Banks article The Keris Sulok or Sundang, has an octagonal hilt (really dark pictures in that old article so hard to see for sure)?
And then I have this Kris in my collection, that I also thought was Sulu?

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

Maybe they are related?

On the lip I haven't found any other example yet with that feature?

Michael

PS Flavio, what's wrong with Bugis Keris?

Flavio · 31st October 2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

PS Flavio, what's wrong with Bugis Keris?

Hi Michael, nothing at all (my only keris is a bugis

)! Anyway beautiful kris

Ian · 1st November 2006, 12:16 PM

Thanks Michael.

What I meant to say is that an octagonal hilt, per se, is not rare on Moro kris, but a continuous silver "sleeve" as shown in your first example above is something that I have not seen before. Perhaps I have just not seen enough high end beauties like these.

Your second example looks more traditional and appears to be a Mindanao kris, most likely Maranao -- the "elephant trunk" area is of the Maranao form (according to Cato). The octagonal handle is wrapped with silver wire to conform to the underlying shape of the handle, although the small band holding the baca baca is circular. The ivory kakatua is small but of traditional shape -- probably late 19th or early 20th C. but could be earlier. The scabbard fits with a Mindanao kris of around that period also. So this one looks a typical Moro kris all round, perhaps redressed around 1900 +/-. The blade looks considerably older than the hilt and scabbard.

The one at the top of the post still has me baffled as to where it originated.

Regards,

Ian.

VVV · 1st November 2006, 12:56 PM

Thanks Ian,

I obviously misunderstood your first comment.

On the second Kris I also classified it as a Maranao blade at first according to Cato.
At that time I decided to try to better figure out the Cato classification method and sent pictures as well as my classifications of my Kris to a more experienced member on this before publishing them on the Internet.
And that's why it was changed to Sulu on both blade and scabbard for this Kris.
This was some time ago and I don't remember why he insisted it was Sulu?
I will e-mail him about it again.
Probably it's time for me to revise my Moro Kris classifications?
Thanks for bringing this up.

Michael

VVV · 4th November 2006, 12:58 PM

Ian,

I haven't recieved any response from my original source.
So I will change it on my collection pages to your classification based on Cato. Thanks again for bringing this up.

No more comments on the Indonesian Keris???

Michael

31st October 2006, 05:31 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Ian, Thanks for your explanation. I also find what you exemplify quite odd. There is one Kris in Leiden, collected in Sulu, that looks like it has just as small pommel as mine. It also looks like as if the hilt on the Kris "Andus" in E Banks article The Keris Sulok or Sundang, has an octagonal hilt (really dark pictures in that old article so hard to see for sure)? And then I have this Kris in my collection, that I also thought was Sulu? http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php Maybe they are related? On the lip I haven't found any other example yet with that feature? Michael PS Flavio, what's wrong with Bugis Keris? Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 31st October 2006 at 09:03 PM.

1st November 2006, 12:16 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,362	Thanks Michael. What I meant to say is that an octagonal hilt, per se, is not rare on Moro kris, but a continuous silver "sleeve" as shown in your first example above is something that I have not seen before. Perhaps I have just not seen enough high end beauties like these. Your second example looks more traditional and appears to be a Mindanao kris, most likely Maranao -- the "elephant trunk" area is of the Maranao form (according to Cato). The octagonal handle is wrapped with silver wire to conform to the underlying shape of the handle, although the small band holding the baca baca is circular. The ivory kakatua is small but of traditional shape -- probably late 19th or early 20th C. but could be earlier. The scabbard fits with a Mindanao kris of around that period also. So this one looks a typical Moro kris all round, perhaps redressed around 1900 +/-. The blade looks considerably older than the hilt and scabbard. The one at the top of the post still has me baffled as to where it originated. Regards, Ian.

1st November 2006, 12:56 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Ian, I obviously misunderstood your first comment. On the second Kris I also classified it as a Maranao blade at first according to Cato. At that time I decided to try to better figure out the Cato classification method and sent pictures as well as my classifications of my Kris to a more experienced member on this before publishing them on the Internet. And that's why it was changed to Sulu on both blade and scabbard for this Kris. This was some time ago and I don't remember why he insisted it was Sulu? I will e-mail him about it again. Probably it's time for me to revise my Moro Kris classifications? Thanks for bringing this up. Michael

4th November 2006, 12:58 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Ian, I haven't recieved any response from my original source. So I will change it on my collection pages to your classification based on Cato. Thanks again for bringing this up. No more comments on the Indonesian Keris??? Michael