Indian Katar

Jim McDougall · 31st October 2006, 04:10 AM

Aurangzeb
You might find the thread on the katar posted by Athena, which is about six spaces down interesting. Often the search feature will reveal data on katars as well, which might give information on similar examples.
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 31st October 2006, 05:01 PM

Hi Aurangzeb,

It’s a nice old katar you have, and a pity it has been scrubbed down with a wire brush. This, unfortunately, happens sometimes. Do you think it has a watered blade?

This one could be from the Mogul period, but it is difficult to say after the treatment it has been through, although my personal opinion is, that it very well could be.

fernando · 31st October 2006, 08:09 PM

Hi Aurangzeb,
Very nice piece.
I happen to have a "katar" very much similar to yours. Can i ask you a question?
Have you measured the width between the two handle bars? Can you easily fit your hand onto the grip bar?
Thanks in advance
fernando

Jens Nordlunde · 31st October 2006, 09:54 PM

Hi Fernando,
You should know, that it is not possible for a normal western hand to fit into a katar hilt. There have been several discussions about this, and no one could prove that it would fit.
Try to make a search.

Aurangzeb · 1st November 2006, 04:32 AM

My hand does fit somewhat good on the crossbars. As to wether it has a watered blade, I'm not really sur is there a way to check to see if it is because it is well wire brushed. I will try to get a close up of the untouched space between the crossbars later. So this dates to about the late 18th. or early 19th. century probalbly. Can this one be put to a specific rehion? Thanks for the help!

Mark...

fernando · 1st November 2006, 12:28 PM

Thanks Mark for your answer, i will apreciate that picture.

Hi Jens, i am aware of that field of discussion, but my question is a bit of a diverted one as, apart from having a katar ( jemadhar, learning with JimMacDougall ) with a fair fit handle, i also have this one with an unusually narrow width ( 6 cms. ), that was sold to me as an "adolescent" katar. I haven't yet seen this specific situation well established by the Experts, or confirmed in any text.

fernando

Jens Nordlunde · 1st November 2006, 01:35 PM

Hi Fernando,

You are not likely to see anything along that line proven by experts.

One of the only things I can suggest is to make the Barleycorn test, and see how it fits to your finger width. Eight Barleycorns should be the width of one index finger measured at the tip. This measure was used for measuring the length and width of blades, and possible hilts as well.

I have had a look at some katars, the most narrow one measures 6.2 cm at the cross bars and the biggest 8.5 cm. This is a difference of 2.3 cm, which I think is quite a lot. Another thing which we must be remembered is, that people who could afford it, had weapons ‘tailored’ to fit them, but those who could not afford this, had to do with the standard size, made by the armouries. In India boys were trained in using weapons, from they were very young, and I have no doubt, that they also had their own weapons, could their parents afford it – made to fit their size of course.

31st October 2006, 04:10 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,285	Aurangzeb You might find the thread on the katar posted by Athena, which is about six spaces down interesting. Often the search feature will reveal data on katars as well, which might give information on similar examples. Jim

31st October 2006, 05:01 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Aurangzeb, It’s a nice old katar you have, and a pity it has been scrubbed down with a wire brush. This, unfortunately, happens sometimes. Do you think it has a watered blade? This one could be from the Mogul period, but it is difficult to say after the treatment it has been through, although my personal opinion is, that it very well could be.

31st October 2006, 08:09 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Aurangzeb, Very nice piece. I happen to have a "katar" very much similar to yours. Can i ask you a question? Have you measured the width between the two handle bars? Can you easily fit your hand onto the grip bar? Thanks in advance fernando

31st October 2006, 09:54 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Fernando, You should know, that it is not possible for a normal western hand to fit into a katar hilt. There have been several discussions about this, and no one could prove that it would fit. Try to make a search.

1st November 2006, 04:32 AM	#5
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	My hand does fit somewhat good on the crossbars. As to wether it has a watered blade, I'm not really sur is there a way to check to see if it is because it is well wire brushed. I will try to get a close up of the untouched space between the crossbars later. So this dates to about the late 18th. or early 19th. century probalbly. Can this one be put to a specific rehion? Thanks for the help! Mark...

1st November 2006, 12:28 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks Mark for your answer, i will apreciate that picture. Hi Jens, i am aware of that field of discussion, but my question is a bit of a diverted one as, apart from having a katar ( jemadhar, learning with JimMacDougall ) with a fair fit handle, i also have this one with an unusually narrow width ( 6 cms. ), that was sold to me as an "adolescent" katar. I haven't yet seen this specific situation well established by the Experts, or confirmed in any text. fernando

1st November 2006, 01:35 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Fernando, You are not likely to see anything along that line proven by experts. One of the only things I can suggest is to make the Barleycorn test, and see how it fits to your finger width. Eight Barleycorns should be the width of one index finger measured at the tip. This measure was used for measuring the length and width of blades, and possible hilts as well. I have had a look at some katars, the most narrow one measures 6.2 cm at the cross bars and the biggest 8.5 cm. This is a difference of 2.3 cm, which I think is quite a lot. Another thing which we must be remembered is, that people who could afford it, had weapons ‘tailored’ to fit them, but those who could not afford this, had to do with the standard size, made by the armouries. In India boys were trained in using weapons, from they were very young, and I have no doubt, that they also had their own weapons, could their parents afford it – made to fit their size of course.