Magnetic weapons

[fearn]

Hi Mare Rosu,

Can you make up a story about the magnetized knife lying on top of a horseshoe magnet or two at some point (the legs of the horseshoe perpendicular to the blade). That would give the magnetic pattern you describe.

I suppose the other way you could magnetize a blade is to put it inside a big coil for a while with the power on. I think the problem there would be keeping the blade from acting like the center of a solenoid and getting shot out, possibly at high speed....

Neat stuff. My question is, why would anyone want to do it, unless it's the usual "sword mysticism" kicking in?

[nechesh]

Jens, you may find the very first thread i posted of this forum of interest:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001099.html
I have been very interested in this subject for some time. For me, the answer to why magnetize a blade is indeed "sword mysticism" kicking in. The first thing i do when i receive a new keris is to check it for magnetic polarity. Most often it is farly weak or dead, but i have received a few blades with a very strong polarity. But even if the polarity is gone i create it. It is a VERY simple process. I have a very powerful magnet that i place the tip of the keris on, and after reciting a few highly secret magickal incantations , it is done. I hold the blade there for less that a minute, so it really does not take much. Why do this? Well, i don't use my keris to cut, at least not in the mundane sense. Polarizing the magnetic flow of the blade increases it's effectiveness as a conduit for energy. The entire universe operates of the interaction between strong and weak magnetic fields. This is occult science gentlemen, so please feel free to roll your eyes.

[Rivkin]

I'm sorry if my idea will be completely stupid, but I don't find it to be a proof of "magnetization on purpose".

Very small pieces of pure iron (and most steels) are magnetic (ferromagnetic) due to their nature. It looses it's magnetic properties when heated, but regains them when cooled - to what extent depends on the way the cooling is performed. If it's rapid the magnetization after the cooling will probably be small, If it's gradual the sample will fully regain the full magnetization (ordering), which will mostly depend on sample's shape and chemical composition.

Now if the piece is not a microscopic one, then the magnetization is due to the fact that when the large piece is cooled it has to be under the influence of magnetic fields (magnetic field of the earth -this is actually how we know that it did decrease during the past 1000 years, anvil, hammers etc.). So if one has a sword that has nonuniform magnetization it can be that this sword for example was wielded from a few different pieces. It can be that the chemical composition varies from side to side (sulfa, chromium I think do kill magnetization quite easily). It can be that while cooled it was lying next to a huge magnetized hammer, so that the external field itself was extremely nonuniform.

Again, the way cooling is performed is very important. Very rapid cooling usually prevents the formation of a magnetized state. So if the blade for example is differentially heat treated it is possible that it simply has different magnetic states present due to this fact.

Such swords rather then becoming demagnetized with time would first actually become uniformly magnetized, and then would assume some magnetization due to the current earth's magnetic field (if it lies in the same place all the time), however it's even a big question if this _ever_ happens (it well may be that the current magnetized state is so efficient that it should take unphysically long time to change it using weak fields and temperatures).

Sincerely yours,

K.Rivkin

[Rivkin]

And yes, placing a very powerful magnet (or taking it to a site of huge iron deposits) will "fix" the new magnetization even in a forged sword.

[Yannis]

As they say, experiment is the base of science.

So, I carried out an experiment with my collection. All my blades passed 2cm away from a compass. Observations:

1. About 40% of them moved the needle.
2. No matter if the blade was antique wootz or 20th century factory made.
3. No matter if the blade is sort or long.
4. Most of the magnetized blades had north polarity in the tip.
5. Some long blades look like they change polarity in their length. They changed the direction of the needle few times as they were passing by.
6. And the winner is… an ottoman kard! This thin 6 inches blade forced the needle to do circles like maniac! Second winner a Caucasian kindjal that made the compass to do a full circle.

Conclusion? The magnetized blades are a funny hour. Sorry mystics. The truth is still out there

[Mare Rosu]

FEARN
"Can you make up a story about the magnetized knife lying on top of a horseshoe magnet or two at some point (the legs of the horseshoe perpendicular to the blade). That would give the magnetic pattern you describe."

Good question, I measured the distance from each change of the compass needle and as best as I can tell it is this; start and then 4 1/2" it changes and then back again at 7 1/2" and back again at 12" so the "legs' of the horse shoe magnet if used were not of equal distance.
Gene

[Jens Nordlunde]

The trick with the number seems as it if was a good idea – and I am very pleased J.

Thank you for your answers so far – and thank you very much for keeping so close to the topicJ

Gene you must have been watching when I put the thread on, as you were very fast, and the story you tell is just what it is all about – thank you.

Fearn, what you write sounds interesting, but is it something that you know, or something that you think? Thank you Gene good point!

Nechesh – I can’t say that I agree with you about magnetising blade anew, on the other hand, I think it must be up to the owner of the blade.

Rivkin, thank you for your input. What you write is important, and I do very much agree with you that the cooling of a sword means a lot to how the magnetism is preserved. I do however have some problems with what you write when you write: Such swords rather then becoming demagnetized with time would first actually become uniformly magnetized, and then would assume some magnetization due to the current earth's magnetic field (if it lies in the same place all the time), however it's even a big question if this _ever_ happens (it well may be that the current magnetized state is so efficient that it should take unphysical long time to change it using weak fields and temperatures.
Somewhere I read that the magnetism of the Earth was so weak that it would make little or no influence on a sword, although it was lying for a long time in the same place.

Do you have any comments to this. If you do, please come with themJ.

Yannis. 1. Your percentage is bigger than mine, although I have not tried all mine blade as yet.
2, 3-4 Same here.
5. Funny I have the same feeling – I wonder why?
6. Can’t beat that – if the needle circles like a maniac, it must be wild, the magnetism must be really strong. Do you know how old the kard and the kinjal are?

Gene we will look forward to the pictures of the magnet felt.

Thank you very much so far

Jens

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by Yannis

Conclusion? The magnetized blades are a funny hour. Sorry mystics. The truth is still out there

Sorry Yannis. i'm not sure i understand your statement or what exactly the "truth" is in this case.

Jens, you are, of course, welcome not to magnetize your blades if you choose. I wasn't necessarily advocating it, just stating it as a practice, but i am curious why you "disagree" with the practice.