Meteoric iron used for keris's vs. for Indian weapons

nechesh · 11th February 2005, 06:35 PM

Aye wolviex, there's the rub!

Rick · 11th February 2005, 06:41 PM

From the archives :

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001122.html
Maybe some questions are answered here .

BSMStar · 11th February 2005, 11:36 PM

Your amazing Rick!

That was a great thread. Kind of fun to watch the Ti learning curve, thought important and later on to fall apart as not true...

I am still interested in learn more on how to identify pamor made with meteorite... it was a bit vague. Other than touch, are there any pictures that may be helpful? ASU has an Electron Micro Probe that will do the trick, but they will only test meteorites.

Rick · 12th February 2005, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Your amazing Rick!

That was a great thread. Kind of fun to watch the Ti learning curve, thought important and later on to fall apart as not true...

I am still interested in learn more on how to identify pamor made with meteorite... it was a bit vague. Other than touch, are there any pictures that may be helpful?

We have covered a lot of subjects in the last 7-8 years .
Forum Search is a great resource .

For pictures ???
Well ....................
there's always ebay , I see lots of examples there .

BSMStar · 12th February 2005, 04:31 AM

Rick,

I respect you opinion, but it seems everyone claims to have a meteorite pamor on eBay... do I trust them all as a resource? Please keep in mind, I would not know a real pamor Prambanan if it jumped up and bit me.

nechesh · 12th February 2005, 05:12 AM

Hey Wayne, i think that with a wink and a grin, Rick is only kidding. EBay shows us the worst of the "media hype" around meteoric keris pamor. Many people actually believe their own hype, some are deceivers, but the bottom line is that there are just not all that many prambanan pamors to be found out there.
On the question of how do we tell, i think the real experts have been very reserved on this issue. They will tell you, i suspect, i believe or it's possible this keris might have meteoric pamor, but if there is a sure way to tell, i have not heard of it.

Rick · 12th February 2005, 04:10 PM

Yep !
I was kidding .

IMO if people who have spent many decades studying keris cannot ( or will not ) tell then what chance does the layman have of discerning the difference .

tom hyle · 18th February 2005, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

From the archives :

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001122.html
Maybe some questions are answered here .

Wow! Way cool. I note that the foreign wootz was considered an interesting material for a ganga, but not suitable for a fine blade

nechesh · 18th February 2005, 04:10 PM

Sorry Henk, it was not my intention to imply that Tammens claimed Groneman was told about meteoric pamor. This is just my logical assumption based on the fact that he was working with the epmus of the time when this pamor may have still been used and they, no doubt, still had a clear memory of the previous generation of empus who had been their teachers. I think it unlikely that since we don't seem to have a test today that can determine for sure if these forged metals are from celestial origins that they didn't have one in 1900 either. So what scientic test could Grneman have used to come up with such a finding. The word of the empus and perhaps seeing them actually working with meteoric pamor was probably enough evidence to the fact.
And no Tom, the idea of meteoric pamor is not a confusion. There is plenty of evidence that the Prambanan fall was used for this purpose. The confusion came later when somehow it became legend that ALL keris were made of such metals.
Okhba3, your information is very interesting. I would love to hear more evidence to this, since i am the eternal skeptic

. It is, of course, completely counter to the research of Tammens, but since i have already taken a swipe at some of that research i am not beyond believing that he may have been mistaken on this as well. I was not aware of these new discoveries and look foward to finding out more.

11th February 2005, 11:36 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Great Thread! Your amazing Rick! That was a great thread. Kind of fun to watch the Ti learning curve, thought important and later on to fall apart as not true... I am still interested in learn more on how to identify pamor made with meteorite... it was a bit vague. Other than touch, are there any pictures that may be helpful? ASU has an Electron Micro Probe that will do the trick, but they will only test meteorites.

12th February 2005, 04:31 AM	#5
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	eBay as a research resource... Rick, I respect you opinion, but it seems everyone claims to have a meteorite pamor on eBay... do I trust them all as a resource? Please keep in mind, I would not know a real pamor Prambanan if it jumped up and bit me.

11th February 2005, 06:35 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Aye wolviex, there's the rub!

11th February 2005, 06:41 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	From the archives : http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001122.html Maybe some questions are answered here .

12th February 2005, 05:12 AM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Wayne, i think that with a wink and a grin, Rick is only kidding. EBay shows us the worst of the "media hype" around meteoric keris pamor. Many people actually believe their own hype, some are deceivers, but the bottom line is that there are just not all that many prambanan pamors to be found out there. On the question of how do we tell, i think the real experts have been very reserved on this issue. They will tell you, i suspect, i believe or it's possible this keris might have meteoric pamor, but if there is a sure way to tell, i have not heard of it.

12th February 2005, 04:10 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Yep ! I was kidding . IMO if people who have spent many decades studying keris cannot ( or will not ) tell then what chance does the layman have of discerning the difference .

18th February 2005, 04:10 PM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Sorry Henk, it was not my intention to imply that Tammens claimed Groneman was told about meteoric pamor. This is just my logical assumption based on the fact that he was working with the epmus of the time when this pamor may have still been used and they, no doubt, still had a clear memory of the previous generation of empus who had been their teachers. I think it unlikely that since we don't seem to have a test today that can determine for sure if these forged metals are from celestial origins that they didn't have one in 1900 either. So what scientic test could Grneman have used to come up with such a finding. The word of the empus and perhaps seeing them actually working with meteoric pamor was probably enough evidence to the fact. And no Tom, the idea of meteoric pamor is not a confusion. There is plenty of evidence that the Prambanan fall was used for this purpose. The confusion came later when somehow it became legend that ALL keris were made of such metals. Okhba3, your information is very interesting. I would love to hear more evidence to this, since i am the eternal skeptic . It is, of course, completely counter to the research of Tammens, but since i have already taken a swipe at some of that research i am not beyond believing that he may have been mistaken on this as well. I was not aware of these new discoveries and look foward to finding out more.