A Nice Takouba just finished on eBay....Euro blade?

Tim Simmons · 19th October 2006, 08:39 PM

I am curious as to why you doubt the smiths ability. Just look at the Massai spear, produced by smiths many hundreds of miles from any permanent building. These swords may well have been produced from any of the many sahal towns that included such things as universities and the like. making a sword cannot be that hard

.

zalmoxis · 19th October 2006, 09:02 PM

There are no swords with real fullers in Africa. Every time a sword has fullers for instance on the Nimcha swords they are European. There is no indication they discovered the use of fullers. In 19th century or earlyer the Tuareg swords would have been in large percentage European, see Spring and others. The use of the usual 3 fullers on the blade is imitation and tradition and not REAL use like in European perception to make the blade lighter.

zalmoxis · 19th October 2006, 09:17 PM

No offence and I don't mind the pictures. I think many times the leather on the hilt would have been replaced many times. Having leather over metal the leather would have been very quickly destroyed and maybe replaced many times. I think maybe that was the case with this one. I think that was one of the best I have sold ever but is just my opinion, because I favor weapons that have actually been used and not just collected of the hand of the makers in new condition.The embossed leather was very old and detailed on the sheath. The blade was unusually heavy on this sword so the use of fullers was a real use to make is lighter. I might be wrong again: I want to see a Takouba with European blade and maker mark. Spring believes that European blades were common??

zalmoxis · 19th October 2006, 09:30 PM

I still think the best piece you have is that spear:-).
You have a Kaskara there with a nice blade.
I have never seen a Takouba with makers mark. Again I might be wrong but your blade might be European too. Out of many blades I have sold there were only 2-3 that have this kind of fuller and were heavy. Prior to 1900 when he Tuaregs were defeated by the French their power over the desert was almost absolute. They were requesting fees from caravans. Why not pay them with cheap blades from Europe? Again Spring says they have many European blades.

Tim Simmons · 19th October 2006, 09:34 PM

Well I am not at all sure that the last sword i post is Tuareg. This form of weapon has a far wider range the the western Tuareg, right into sub tropical regions i believe.

Lew · 19th October 2006, 09:36 PM

Ok

What do you think of this blade?

zalmoxis · 19th October 2006, 09:36 PM

Tim I don't think that is African also, just my opinion. I think the North African blacksmiths were not as skilled as the ones from Congo.The Nigerian and Mandingo swords and dagger are poor in any way the old one also. I admire the old Flyssa of the Berbers my favorite from North Africa, but they never used fullers. They were responsible many times for the very nice Tuareg all steel with brass inlay javelins.

zalmoxis · 19th October 2006, 09:45 PM

First I think that is a beautiful piece.
Second again who could have made such a nice piece?
There are very nice spears in the Sudan area and Abyssinia that remind me of this sword.The mid rib especially. Is it sharp how old do you think the blade is? Do you have a better picture with the blade?
I have never seen something similar.

Tim Simmons · 19th October 2006, 09:50 PM

This is a super piece of flexable steel and unargueably local. To my mind African blade are often overlooked. I just think some people cannot understand them.

Lew · 19th October 2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zalmoxis

First I think that is a beautiful piece.
Second again who could have made such a nice piece?
There are very nice spears in the Sudan area and Abyssinia that remind me of this sword.The mid rib especially. Is it sharp how old do you think the blade is? Do you have a better picture with the blade?
I have never seen something similar.

Which sword are you refering to mine or Tim's? My sword is Kirdi Cameroon/southern Nigeria and southern Chad.

Lew

19th October 2006, 09:36 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ok What do you think of this blade? Attached Images

19th October 2006, 09:50 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Still fighting my corner This is a super piece of flexable steel and unargueably local. To my mind African blade are often overlooked. I just think some people cannot understand them. Attached Images

19th October 2006, 08:39 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I am curious as to why you doubt the smiths ability. Just look at the Massai spear, produced by smiths many hundreds of miles from any permanent building. These swords may well have been produced from any of the many sahal towns that included such things as universities and the like. making a sword cannot be that hard .

19th October 2006, 09:02 PM	#2
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	There are no swords with real fullers in Africa. Every time a sword has fullers for instance on the Nimcha swords they are European. There is no indication they discovered the use of fullers. In 19th century or earlyer the Tuareg swords would have been in large percentage European, see Spring and others. The use of the usual 3 fullers on the blade is imitation and tradition and not REAL use like in European perception to make the blade lighter.

19th October 2006, 09:17 PM	#3
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	No offence and I don't mind the pictures. I think many times the leather on the hilt would have been replaced many times. Having leather over metal the leather would have been very quickly destroyed and maybe replaced many times. I think maybe that was the case with this one. I think that was one of the best I have sold ever but is just my opinion, because I favor weapons that have actually been used and not just collected of the hand of the makers in new condition.The embossed leather was very old and detailed on the sheath. The blade was unusually heavy on this sword so the use of fullers was a real use to make is lighter. I might be wrong again: I want to see a Takouba with European blade and maker mark. Spring believes that European blades were common??

19th October 2006, 09:30 PM	#4
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	I still think the best piece you have is that spear:-). You have a Kaskara there with a nice blade. I have never seen a Takouba with makers mark. Again I might be wrong but your blade might be European too. Out of many blades I have sold there were only 2-3 that have this kind of fuller and were heavy. Prior to 1900 when he Tuaregs were defeated by the French their power over the desert was almost absolute. They were requesting fees from caravans. Why not pay them with cheap blades from Europe? Again Spring says they have many European blades.

19th October 2006, 09:34 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Well I am not at all sure that the last sword i post is Tuareg. This form of weapon has a far wider range the the western Tuareg, right into sub tropical regions i believe.

19th October 2006, 09:45 PM	#8
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	First I think that is a beautiful piece. Second again who could have made such a nice piece? There are very nice spears in the Sudan area and Abyssinia that remind me of this sword.The mid rib especially. Is it sharp how old do you think the blade is? Do you have a better picture with the blade? I have never seen something similar.