Moro Pira for comment

mmontoro · 10th February 2005, 03:41 PM

For more specific information about age you might check with Cecil Quirino, note the acquistion dates of any examples you are lucky enough to find in museum collections or try to date any photographs/postcards which depict them. Some of the more well read members in PI history and literature may have seen refernces to them in a publication with a known date. There seem to be few enough older Pira around that I think you are looking for needles in a haystack.

Federico · 10th February 2005, 10:58 PM

Ok, this is just my opinion, and I make no claims at being an expert. However, it would seem to me, that one would be most likely to find pira in pictures taken prior to 1920 more closely to the turn of the century for a few reasons. One after the American ban on traditional weaponry (Im forgetting the exact date), I would imagine the incidence of people wearing traditional weaponry, at least in front of American cameras, would have declined. Secondly, part of the reason I am more inclined to think pics with people wearing pira would be closer to the turn of the century, is that it is at this point, before the US administration started to tighten its grip in the region, that relations amongst US/Moros was most friendly, with few incidence of attacks against Americans reported, so this would be the time when it would be the most safe to take pics of armed persons. Finally, a pic taken by Maude Jenks, (I think it was taken by her, but I cant remember for sure) of a couple of warriors wearing pira was around the turn of the century, and is of striking similarity in style of picture to the type taken (not just the dress of the warrior, but also the picture style itself, the grainy BW, etc...). There is also a limited number of picture studios, and photographers who did this kind of subject at a time, and they were most popular in the early turn of the century. The following site/database is nice as it often contains the date of the pic and the studio name/photographer http://webcat.library.wisc.edu:3200/SEAiT/

While we most associate pira with Yakan, at least as far as Cato's book is concerned he does say the pira was found throughout the Sulu sultanate. However, he distinguishes the ones as Yakan as the ones featuring the typical Yakan features of abbreviated punto, and cockatua style.

Anyways, lovely pira.

zamboanga · 12th February 2005, 05:56 AM

indeed, piras are exclusive to yakans.

according to Sherfan (the yakans of basilan island, 1976) - the barong and the kris, although popular, are less valuable or admired among the Yakan.

Sherfan further mentions that in the 1700s the sultanate of Sulu ruled over the island of Basilan nominally and had little influence over the Yakans who lived in the interior.

as to the origins of the yakans, some sources claim they have strong links to dayaks of borneo while others claim the yakans have polynesian ancestors.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 15th February 2005, 01:30 PM

Well as long as we're on the subject here's one I picked up recently, it appears to fall into the more recent category. The blade appears to have had some age (prior to someone polishing it) and the handle has a criss-cross inlay of what appears to be aluminum. Any other info would be appreciated.

Rick · 15th February 2005, 02:29 PM

So where does that leave us with this old example ?
Yakan , but with a long punto ?

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 03:06 PM

Since everyone is now asking questions, what about these two as well?
The upper one with a knife-like blade may well not fit into the pira category, although the hilt is typical for the style, while the lower one has a notched blade end and the tooled brass covering on the hilt reminds me of Lake Marano (sp?) region pieces that I've seen, and if so, would that still be Yakan?
I've had these a few years now and had a chance to clean them, with both having laminated blades, thus putting them back before the spring steel days at least.
Mike

Ian · 15th February 2005, 05:20 PM

Mike: I think you have two of the "newer" forms that may originate from Mindanao. The top one has a narrow blade profile that resembles some of the swords coming from the Kaolo tribe near Davao City in the province of Davao del Sur (eastern Mindanao). It does not look like a traditional Moro blade shape.

The bottom one has a traditional blade form (age hard to tell), and a brass hilt that resembles some of those seen on recent Maranao pieces from the Lake Lanao region. I suspect that some of the modern pira made in a traditional style are actually made in that area, which is the source for many of the contemporary, dressed-up kris seen on the market today.

Rick: Best I can tell, yours is an old pira from Basilan. The short puntos are more common, but I have now seen several old Yakan pira with the longer style of punto. Just a minor variation, I think.

Dan: Pretty pira and an example of recent manufacture (at least the hilt is recent). Hard to know where this one comes from -- probably Basilan but perhaps Lanao del Sur.

15th February 2005, 01:30 PM	#4
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Newer Pira Well as long as we're on the subject here's one I picked up recently, it appears to fall into the more recent category. The blade appears to have had some age (prior to someone polishing it) and the handle has a criss-cross inlay of what appears to be aluminum. Any other info would be appreciated. Attached Images

15th February 2005, 02:29 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	So where does that leave us with this old example ? Yakan , but with a long punto ? Attached Images

15th February 2005, 03:06 PM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Since everyone is now asking questions, what about these two as well? The upper one with a knife-like blade may well not fit into the pira category, although the hilt is typical for the style, while the lower one has a notched blade end and the tooled brass covering on the hilt reminds me of Lake Marano (sp?) region pieces that I've seen, and if so, would that still be Yakan? I've had these a few years now and had a chance to clean them, with both having laminated blades, thus putting them back before the spring steel days at least. Mike Attached Images

15th February 2005, 05:20 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,363	Responses to Mike, Rick, Dan ... Mike: I think you have two of the "newer" forms that may originate from Mindanao. The top one has a narrow blade profile that resembles some of the swords coming from the Kaolo tribe near Davao City in the province of Davao del Sur (eastern Mindanao). It does not look like a traditional Moro blade shape. The bottom one has a traditional blade form (age hard to tell), and a brass hilt that resembles some of those seen on recent Maranao pieces from the Lake Lanao region. I suspect that some of the modern pira made in a traditional style are actually made in that area, which is the source for many of the contemporary, dressed-up kris seen on the market today. Rick: Best I can tell, yours is an old pira from Basilan. The short puntos are more common, but I have now seen several old Yakan pira with the longer style of punto. Just a minor variation, I think. Dan: Pretty pira and an example of recent manufacture (at least the hilt is recent). Hard to know where this one comes from -- probably Basilan but perhaps Lanao del Sur.

10th February 2005, 03:41 PM	#1
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	For more specific information about age you might check with Cecil Quirino, note the acquistion dates of any examples you are lucky enough to find in museum collections or try to date any photographs/postcards which depict them. Some of the more well read members in PI history and literature may have seen refernces to them in a publication with a known date. There seem to be few enough older Pira around that I think you are looking for needles in a haystack.

10th February 2005, 10:58 PM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Ok, this is just my opinion, and I make no claims at being an expert. However, it would seem to me, that one would be most likely to find pira in pictures taken prior to 1920 more closely to the turn of the century for a few reasons. One after the American ban on traditional weaponry (Im forgetting the exact date), I would imagine the incidence of people wearing traditional weaponry, at least in front of American cameras, would have declined. Secondly, part of the reason I am more inclined to think pics with people wearing pira would be closer to the turn of the century, is that it is at this point, before the US administration started to tighten its grip in the region, that relations amongst US/Moros was most friendly, with few incidence of attacks against Americans reported, so this would be the time when it would be the most safe to take pics of armed persons. Finally, a pic taken by Maude Jenks, (I think it was taken by her, but I cant remember for sure) of a couple of warriors wearing pira was around the turn of the century, and is of striking similarity in style of picture to the type taken (not just the dress of the warrior, but also the picture style itself, the grainy BW, etc...). There is also a limited number of picture studios, and photographers who did this kind of subject at a time, and they were most popular in the early turn of the century. The following site/database is nice as it often contains the date of the pic and the studio name/photographer http://webcat.library.wisc.edu:3200/SEAiT/ While we most associate pira with Yakan, at least as far as Cato's book is concerned he does say the pira was found throughout the Sulu sultanate. However, he distinguishes the ones as Yakan as the ones featuring the typical Yakan features of abbreviated punto, and cockatua style. Anyways, lovely pira.

12th February 2005, 05:56 AM	#3
zamboanga Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: zamboanga city, philippines Posts: 132	indeed, piras are exclusive to yakans. according to Sherfan (the yakans of basilan island, 1976) - the barong and the kris, although popular, are less valuable or admired among the Yakan. Sherfan further mentions that in the 1700s the sultanate of Sulu ruled over the island of Basilan nominally and had little influence over the Yakans who lived in the interior. as to the origins of the yakans, some sources claim they have strong links to dayaks of borneo while others claim the yakans have polynesian ancestors.