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Old 17th October 2006, 03:23 PM   #1
Rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapico1
Hi,
I don't want to be the one with the bad news all the time but I feel I have to react here.....
The "ikula"knives don't have a scabbard!!
This scabbard is from a tourist Lega knife!!
I saw this one on ebay to but it's not so good quality for a ikula.
There're thousands of those knives,they're the most common Kuba knives.
Sorry but very often I read here on the forum:great,super,congratz,etc.....for things of very low quality or even fake!! Most of the time I don't react to keep the dream alive but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do on the long run....
Danny, all opinions are welcomed; the way we all learn is from the expertise of others . Please have no qualms about identifying pieces that are not old or have been made to deceive the innocent .

I believe sometime back we had a discussion on just what is 'fake' as it can be a loaded word in discussion .

Again, please share your expertise with us all; no good that will come from keeping silent on such issues; just be gentle with us .
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Old 17th October 2006, 04:44 PM   #2
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YOU HAVE SOLVED ONE OF MY MYSTERIES I ALWAYS WONDERED WHERE ALL THE SCABBARDS WERE ON THIS TYPE KNIFE. THE PICTURE SHOWING THE KNIVES STORED ON THE HUT WALL AND YOUR EXPLANATION OF THE KNIVES MAIN PURPOSE CLEAR UP SEVERAL QUESTIONS. WERE THESE DAGGERS EVER CARRIED TO WAR AS A BACKUP WEAPON OR LEFT AT HOME ON SUCH OCCASIONS AND THE LARGER SWORDS AND SPEARS CARRIED? I ASSUME THE 20 DIFFERENT FORMS ALL HAVE A SPECIAL MEANING OR PURPOSE?

IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO FIND WEAPONS WITH MIS MATCHED SCABBARDS AND I ALWAYS WONDER WHEN AND HOW IT OCCURED. I RECENTLY SAW TWO FRENCH SWORDS IN ETHIOPIAN SCABARDS AND HAVE A FEW ITEMS IN MY COLLECTION I WONDER ABOUT.
YOU GOT A COMPLETE DAGGER AND AN EXTRA SCABBARD TO BOOT NOW YOU NEED TO FIND THE PROPER DAGGER FOR THE SCABBARD IT NEVER SEEMS TO END AS FAR AS COLLECTING ,BUT WHO WANTS IT TO
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Old 17th October 2006, 10:17 PM   #3
katana
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As Rick and others have pointed out...it is important there are conflicting views.
Dis-information breeds more dis-information and benefits no-one.

I am hoping that the 'pouch' is of some age, that although it is not the scabbard ...that it is a tribal artefact..... and not a 'tourist sheath' or handbag

My 'gut instinct' was right.... but there was that element of doubt (that I could be wrong) so I bid. As a collector we must occasionally take risks.. otherwise you could miss out on something incredibly rare.......Ah...the 'ups and downs' of collecting........nurse pass me my vallium
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Old 19th October 2006, 01:45 PM   #4
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It arrived today.......got a little excited......the handle is heavily encrusted in grime.......looked all wood with faint intricate carving.....gently scraped the carved areas ....to reveil.....silvery metal. The 'wear' patina suggests age....so the 19c stated by the seller IS a possibility.
As to the pouch, it is made from old thick leather which is age hardened, is well constructed and also suggests age, say mid 20c. The pouch has 'age' harden around the knife's blade shape....which further suggests that this married couple have been together for some time. I am not saying that this is a sheath for the sword.....but IMHO this has been used to store it for sometime.

The metal 'inlays' are quite fine and still have alot of grime in them...what can I use (solvent ?) to thoughly remove the dirt without ruining the overall patina? The pommel is overlaid with a metal 'cap' which is 'patterned' but covered in a dark brown/black layer ....should this be cleaned off? Pictures will not show (very well) the metal work, so I want to clean it further before posting new pics.

The blade is fairly sharp, and although it has not been sharpened ...for a very long time...I could cut my finger if I run it along the blade (cuts paper fairly cleanly) ...the blade has a formed edge.

I am also right in suggesting that this is a higher status example of a ikula.......
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Old 19th October 2006, 02:22 PM   #5
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Searched the Anthropology collections website, found this image .....acquired in 1907. The hilt is very similar to mine....
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Old 21st October 2006, 07:39 PM   #6
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Poor pictures, as not fully clean, but they give you an idea....
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Old 21st October 2006, 08:43 PM   #7
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Hi Katana, for sure the ikula is a good one, no tourist piece, and even if these knives are quite common, anyway they are very elegant and worth to be collected. Here are two of mine for comparison. About the scabbard, well as others have already said, it's modern

Regards
Flavio
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