My First Kuba Sword......comments please

VANDOO · 17th October 2006, 04:43 AM

CONGRADULATIONS!!

I CAN'T TELL MUCH ABOUT THE HANDLE ON YOUR EXAMPLE BUT THE MOST INTERESTING THING IS THAT IT HAS A SCABBARD. I HAVE 5 EXAMPLES OF THIS KNIFE ALL DIFFERENT AND NONE OF THEM HAS A SCABBARD. IN FACT I AM NOT SURE IF I HAD EVER SEEN ONE WITH A SCABBARD BEFORE AND I HAVE SEEN MANY EXAMPLES OVER THE YEARS.MANY OF THESE HAVE SMALL PICES OF PEWTER DRIVEN INTO THE HANDLES FORMING VARIOUS DESIGNS THEY ARE ALSO OFTEN SEEN IN THE BENNIN BRONZES IN THE HANDS OF WARRIORS.

Tim Simmons · 17th October 2006, 06:48 AM

Well done. I to have never seen one with a scabbard, or even in an old photograph. Lucky lucky

katana · 17th October 2006, 09:47 AM

Thankyou all.....I actually, was NOT going to bid on this piece because it HAD a SCABBARD......I have never seen a scabbard with this type of sword and assumed the 'marriage' was made to make the item more saleable.
However, the cowrie shells and the stylised 'masks' suggested 'Kuba' so I took the risk........glad I did

These are the only pics I have, when it arrives I will post better ones..

Mapico1 · 17th October 2006, 10:14 AM

Hi,
I don't want to be the one with the bad news all the time but I feel I have to react here.....
The "ikula"knives don't have a scabbard!!
This scabbard is from a tourist Lega knife!!
I saw this one on ebay to but it's not so good quality for a ikula.
There're thousands of those knives,they're the most common Kuba knives.
Sorry but very often I read here on the forum:great,super,congratz,etc.....for things of very low quality or even fake!! Most of the time I don't react to keep the dream alive but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do on the long run....

katana · 17th October 2006, 10:49 AM

Thanks for your input Mapico, the seller states that the 'scabbard' has age, I'll wait and see if this is the case. As I mentioned before..I was not certain about the scabbard.
But, if you are correct, why do these swords not have some form of scabbard? That seems strange....after all who wants to walk around branishing your sword all the time.....it would be inconvenient. Plus the fact a scabbard offers protection to the sword when not in use.

Congoblades · 17th October 2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapico1

Hi,
I don't want to be the one with the bad news all the time but I feel I have to react here.....
The "ikula"knives don't have a scabbard!!
This scabbard is from a tourist Lega knife!!
I saw this one on ebay to but it's not so good quality for a ikula.
There're thousands of those knives,they're the most common Kuba knives.
Sorry but very often I read here on the forum:great,super,congratz,etc.....for things of very low quality or even fake!! Most of the time I don't react to keep the dream alive but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do on the long run....

Hi Danny, It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it

I appreciate these comment highly, it is not pleasant for the owner but usefull for the others, personal I prefer to know if I have a bad, cheap or touristic example of some item rather than to dream of things I don't have but don't know YET!!
Guy

Mapico1 · 17th October 2006, 12:36 PM

Hi,
almost all the Kuba knives are to show the rank of the owner.
There're about 20 different shapes,starting with the one you bought,then the same in red copper,then one with a 1,5 cm flat tip,then ikula with pewter and brass inlay in the handle,etc...........the long sword "ilondo"is used for fighting and has a raffia scabbard with belt to wear.
The knives,when not in use are kept in the wall of their homes,which are made of raffia strips......
The old knives are mostly sharp,the later ones not.
Also the later ones are sometimes cut out of a plate and not forged.
Yours is forged!!no worries.

Rick · 17th October 2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapico1

Hi,
I don't want to be the one with the bad news all the time but I feel I have to react here.....
The "ikula"knives don't have a scabbard!!
This scabbard is from a tourist Lega knife!!
I saw this one on ebay to but it's not so good quality for a ikula.
There're thousands of those knives,they're the most common Kuba knives.
Sorry but very often I read here on the forum:great,super,congratz,etc.....for things of very low quality or even fake!! Most of the time I don't react to keep the dream alive but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do on the long run....

Danny, all opinions are welcomed; the way we all learn is from the expertise of others . Please have no qualms about identifying pieces that are not old or have been made to deceive the innocent .

I believe sometime back we had a discussion on just what is 'fake' as it can be a loaded word in discussion .

Again, please share your expertise with us all; no good that will come from keeping silent on such issues; just be gentle with us .

VANDOO · 17th October 2006, 04:44 PM

YOU HAVE SOLVED ONE OF MY MYSTERIES

I ALWAYS WONDERED WHERE ALL THE SCABBARDS WERE ON THIS TYPE KNIFE. THE PICTURE SHOWING THE KNIVES STORED ON THE HUT WALL AND YOUR EXPLANATION OF THE KNIVES MAIN PURPOSE CLEAR UP SEVERAL QUESTIONS. WERE THESE DAGGERS EVER CARRIED TO WAR AS A BACKUP WEAPON OR LEFT AT HOME ON SUCH OCCASIONS AND THE LARGER SWORDS AND SPEARS CARRIED? I ASSUME THE 20 DIFFERENT FORMS ALL HAVE A SPECIAL MEANING OR PURPOSE?

IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO FIND WEAPONS WITH MIS MATCHED SCABBARDS AND I ALWAYS WONDER WHEN AND HOW IT OCCURED. I RECENTLY SAW TWO FRENCH SWORDS IN ETHIOPIAN SCABARDS AND HAVE A FEW ITEMS IN MY COLLECTION I WONDER ABOUT.
YOU GOT A COMPLETE DAGGER AND AN EXTRA SCABBARD TO BOOT NOW YOU NEED TO FIND THE PROPER DAGGER FOR THE SCABBARD

IT NEVER SEEMS TO END AS FAR AS COLLECTING ,BUT WHO WANTS IT TO

katana · 17th October 2006, 10:17 PM

As Rick and others have pointed out...it is important there are conflicting views.
Dis-information breeds more dis-information and benefits no-one.

I am hoping that the 'pouch' is of some age, that although it is not the scabbard ...that it is a tribal artefact..... and not a 'tourist sheath' or handbag

My 'gut instinct' was right.... but there was that element of doubt (that I could be wrong) so I bid. As a collector we must occasionally take risks.. otherwise you could miss out on something incredibly rare.......Ah...the 'ups and downs' of collecting........nurse pass me my vallium

17th October 2006, 10:14 AM	#4
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	kuba Hi, I don't want to be the one with the bad news all the time but I feel I have to react here..... The "ikula"knives don't have a scabbard!! This scabbard is from a tourist Lega knife!! I saw this one on ebay to but it's not so good quality for a ikula. There're thousands of those knives,they're the most common Kuba knives. Sorry but very often I read here on the forum:great,super,congratz,etc.....for things of very low quality or even fake!! Most of the time I don't react to keep the dream alive but I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do on the long run....

17th October 2006, 12:36 PM	#7
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	kuba Hi, almost all the Kuba knives are to show the rank of the owner. There're about 20 different shapes,starting with the one you bought,then the same in red copper,then one with a 1,5 cm flat tip,then ikula with pewter and brass inlay in the handle,etc...........the long sword "ilondo"is used for fighting and has a raffia scabbard with belt to wear. The knives,when not in use are kept in the wall of their homes,which are made of raffia strips...... The old knives are mostly sharp,the later ones not. Also the later ones are sometimes cut out of a plate and not forged. Yours is forged!!no worries. Attached Images

17th October 2006, 04:43 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CONGRADULATIONS!! I CAN'T TELL MUCH ABOUT THE HANDLE ON YOUR EXAMPLE BUT THE MOST INTERESTING THING IS THAT IT HAS A SCABBARD. I HAVE 5 EXAMPLES OF THIS KNIFE ALL DIFFERENT AND NONE OF THEM HAS A SCABBARD. IN FACT I AM NOT SURE IF I HAD EVER SEEN ONE WITH A SCABBARD BEFORE AND I HAVE SEEN MANY EXAMPLES OVER THE YEARS.MANY OF THESE HAVE SMALL PICES OF PEWTER DRIVEN INTO THE HANDLES FORMING VARIOUS DESIGNS THEY ARE ALSO OFTEN SEEN IN THE BENNIN BRONZES IN THE HANDS OF WARRIORS.

17th October 2006, 06:48 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	Well done. I to have never seen one with a scabbard, or even in an old photograph. Lucky lucky

17th October 2006, 09:47 AM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thankyou all.....I actually, was NOT going to bid on this piece because it HAD a SCABBARD......I have never seen a scabbard with this type of sword and assumed the 'marriage' was made to make the item more saleable. However, the cowrie shells and the stylised 'masks' suggested 'Kuba' so I took the risk........glad I did These are the only pics I have, when it arrives I will post better ones..

17th October 2006, 10:49 AM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks for your input Mapico, the seller states that the 'scabbard' has age, I'll wait and see if this is the case. As I mentioned before..I was not certain about the scabbard. But, if you are correct, why do these swords not have some form of scabbard? That seems strange....after all who wants to walk around branishing your sword all the time.....it would be inconvenient. Plus the fact a scabbard offers protection to the sword when not in use.

17th October 2006, 04:44 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YOU HAVE SOLVED ONE OF MY MYSTERIES I ALWAYS WONDERED WHERE ALL THE SCABBARDS WERE ON THIS TYPE KNIFE. THE PICTURE SHOWING THE KNIVES STORED ON THE HUT WALL AND YOUR EXPLANATION OF THE KNIVES MAIN PURPOSE CLEAR UP SEVERAL QUESTIONS. WERE THESE DAGGERS EVER CARRIED TO WAR AS A BACKUP WEAPON OR LEFT AT HOME ON SUCH OCCASIONS AND THE LARGER SWORDS AND SPEARS CARRIED? I ASSUME THE 20 DIFFERENT FORMS ALL HAVE A SPECIAL MEANING OR PURPOSE? IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO FIND WEAPONS WITH MIS MATCHED SCABBARDS AND I ALWAYS WONDER WHEN AND HOW IT OCCURED. I RECENTLY SAW TWO FRENCH SWORDS IN ETHIOPIAN SCABARDS AND HAVE A FEW ITEMS IN MY COLLECTION I WONDER ABOUT. YOU GOT A COMPLETE DAGGER AND AN EXTRA SCABBARD TO BOOT NOW YOU NEED TO FIND THE PROPER DAGGER FOR THE SCABBARD IT NEVER SEEMS TO END AS FAR AS COLLECTING ,BUT WHO WANTS IT TO

17th October 2006, 10:17 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	As Rick and others have pointed out...it is important there are conflicting views. Dis-information breeds more dis-information and benefits no-one. I am hoping that the 'pouch' is of some age, that although it is not the scabbard ...that it is a tribal artefact..... and not a 'tourist sheath' or handbag My 'gut instinct' was right.... but there was that element of doubt (that I could be wrong) so I bid. As a collector we must occasionally take risks.. otherwise you could miss out on something incredibly rare.......Ah...the 'ups and downs' of collecting........nurse pass me my vallium