Murut Swords

[VVV]

Bill,

I think Ben means that your brass collar is shorter than those on all of his Pakayun.
More the size of his Parang Sangkit, which is a different kind of Murut sword.
John has posted his 2 nice Pakayun in his gallery on the Kampungnet.

Here is another one of the very rare old style Pakayun.
I know that Ben doesn't think the red colour is traditional.
But the colour is already antique and I don't feel like changing anything.
I am a bit low on other Pakayun after Ben decided to focus his collecting.

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Michael your pakayun has found a nice spot on the wall at my home
but now we have to talk about this one you showing

I only see 2 pakayuns with the middle carved and you now this is very old style the one in your hands and mine


Hi Bill the measure is from the brass collar to the end off the handle

The style off the old pakayuns is with long brass collar so are they pictured
in stone's Glossary and on old pics

Never see them with the long wooden handle so that is why this is in mine opinion this is not so old as the other ones with long brass collars

But not easy to date yours Bill scabbard is also without carving so later date
but blade does look like the old ones

But if you ever visit me it is easyer to explain for me

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill the measure is from the brass collar to the end off the handle

The style off the old pakayuns is with long brass collar so are they pictured
in stone's Glossary and on old pics

Never see them with the long wooden handle so that is why this is in mine opinion this is not so old as the other ones with long brass collars

But not easy to date yours Bill scabbard is also without carving so later date
but blade does look like the old ones

But if you ever visit me it is easyer to explain for me

Ben,

Ah, now I understand. The length of the brass collar! Now I see a big difference in mine and the others.

While I am happy to know more, I am a bit concerned that mine is not a good example as I thought it was.

Please understand that I am grateful that you pointed it out. I need to know.

I probably won't sell mine because I like the blade. I also like the wear patina on the handle.

But I am in the market for a correct one, an old correct one would be even better. I will PM you about this.

I am curious about the two points on the end of the handle that look different than most of yours. Is this also someting I should watch out for?

[VANDOO]

A VERY IMPRESSIVE COLLECTION AND ITS DIFFICULT TO EVEN HAVE ONE PACKAYUN IN YOUR COLLECTION SO CONGRADULATIONS TO ALL!!

I NOTICED THAT TWO OF BENS EXAMPLES AND MICHAEL'S EXAMPLE HAVE THE SMALL SHARP POINT WHERE THE BLADE NEARS THE HANDLE AND THE FORTE IS THINNER WHERE IT GOES INTO THE HANDLE TO FORM THE TANG. THIS FEATURE REMINDS ME OF THE BATACK PISO FORMS OF KNIVES. ALSO THE TIP ON ONE OF BEN'S EXAMPLES AND MICHAEL'S EXAMPLE DON'T HAVE THE CLIPPED POINTS LIKE THE OTHER EXAMPLES. I ASSUME THE BATACK WERE TRADING IN THE AREA IF NOT RELATED TO THE MURUT SO POSSIBLY THEY BROUGHT IN SOME TRADE BLADES

THERE ARE MANY VARIATIONS IN MOST WEAPONS EVEN IF THERE ARE NOT ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCES. SO THAT PART OF THE WORLD IS EVEN MORE VARIED DUE TO ALL THE INTERACTION OF MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES OVER A VERY LONG TIME.
I LIKE IT A LOT IT JUST WOULDN'T BE AS MUCH FUN IF EVERYTHING ETHINOGRAPHIC WAS JUST ALIKE.

[VVV]

Originally Posted by Dajak

I only see 2 pakayuns with the middle carved and you now this is very old style the one in your hands and mine

Ben,

You forgot about the third one, shown in Shelford's article.
Let's see who will find it?

Vandoo,

I think the resemblance on the Batak swords in this case is coincidental.
Those features, isolated, are present in several other areas as well and I haven't seen any Pakayun yet with a trade blade.
Also I haven't seen proof of that Bataks and Muruts had any direct cultural exchange.
Some Batak blades were influenced by the Portuguese however who also visited the Western coast of Borneo.
But I haven't read about any major influence on the Muruts from the Portuguese?
Instead Chinese traders had more early contact with them.

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Bill yes take a good look at the Handle s the one you have to look for is
long brass collar and also if they have a scabbard it need to be one with carving on it

That s why I post these so people can see what they have to look like there are not so many pakayuns to compare

Hi Vandoo These blade forms are different from the Batak ones
it is like Michael says
also the muruts was a little group
And also thank to you I could make my pakayun collection
completer with an nice piece

[Dajak]

old Murut pic did get it from Michael