Moro shield

David · 15th October 2006, 03:27 PM

This is an interesting discussion. What bothers me about it is that it seems there is some disagreement as to the origins of Bill's shield, but no one is really coming out and saying so. It would be wonderful if those forumites, "expert" or nor, who think this is something other than a Moro shield come out and say so and perhaps say why and what they think it might be. From the perspective of someone who knows nothing about this either way this skirting around the question only adds to my confusion. It does seem from the looks of your shield Bill that it is an authentic "something"

If you guys don't think it's Moro, what do you think it is? Come on, Bill's not gonna bite ya.

Lew, i assume you are suggesting it might be African?

Dajak · 15th October 2006, 03:41 PM

It is in the book by prestel listed as Vietnamese but maybe it is African
I never see it listed as moro.

Bill M · 15th October 2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

It is in the book by prestel listed as Vietnamese but maybe it is African
I never see it listed as moro.

Could be Vietnamese.

I would like ot hear from some of the other people also. It sure looks and feels old. I think that any old rattan sheild is rare because rattan does not hold up that well and they were really undervalued for many years.

It is well made and in perfect condition. The seller is a very well known and prestigious dealer who got it from a collector who has been collecting things like this for over 30 years.

They called it "Moro." Whatever! It will look good hanging on my Moro armor!

Really a round rattan sheild without markings, emblematic bosses, special handles, any distinguishing marks, may be hard to place.

Any of the Moro people who want to respond?

Tim Simmons · 15th October 2006, 04:13 PM

I think it is safe to say it is not African. The trouble with books of the last century, and therefore many collectors and dealers is that some things are seen and catalogued in an absolutist manner. This is very noticeable with African artifacts. When in reality there was a flux between borders, styles and some cultural influences. Many an objects form may be governed by wealth and local materials. Looking at this area of SE Asia, I would not at all be surprised if this shield form, with some local differences did not cover thousands of miles N,S,W and E.

Bill, what a fabulous glimpse at the depth of your collection. I like that adze.

David · 15th October 2006, 04:44 PM

Well, when i look at the eBay example that Lew linked, while the form is similar the style of weaving appears to be a very different technique. Of course, this eBay example might not be African either for all i know.

Bill M · 15th October 2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I think it is safe to say it is not African. The trouble with books of the last century, and therefore many collectors and dealers is that some things are seen and catalogued in an absolutist manner. This is very noticeable with African artifacts. When in reality there was a flux between borders, styles and some cultural influences. Many an objects form may be governed by wealth and local materials. Looking at this area of SE Asia, I would not at all be surprised if this shield form, with some local differences did not cover thousands of miles N,S,W and E.

Bill, what a fabulous glimpse at the depth of your collection. I like that adze.

Tim, Thank you for the compliment. The adz is a very special piece. It has been in a french collection for about a hundred years. Just got it a few months ago. The same curator who reccomended the crocodile mask said that I had to get the adz also.

The piece with breasts is a Theyyam body mask/ armor, used in trance rituals in Kerala / Malabar. Bet they are really busy with Goddess festivals about now!

Dajak · 15th October 2006, 08:48 PM

Maybe the book Basketry of the Luzon Cordillera, philippines

can help about the weaving form

Bill M · 15th October 2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Maybe the book Basketry of the Luzon Cordillera, philippines

can help about the weaving form

Just ordered it from Amazon. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill do you have the book shields from Prestel
take a look on page 132 pic 66

can't find this book, Ben. Is that the exact title?

15th October 2006, 03:27 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	This is an interesting discussion. What bothers me about it is that it seems there is some disagreement as to the origins of Bill's shield, but no one is really coming out and saying so. It would be wonderful if those forumites, "expert" or nor, who think this is something other than a Moro shield come out and say so and perhaps say why and what they think it might be. From the perspective of someone who knows nothing about this either way this skirting around the question only adds to my confusion. It does seem from the looks of your shield Bill that it is an authentic "something" If you guys don't think it's Moro, what do you think it is? Come on, Bill's not gonna bite ya. Lew, i assume you are suggesting it might be African?

15th October 2006, 03:41 PM	#2
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	It is in the book by prestel listed as Vietnamese but maybe it is African I never see it listed as moro.

15th October 2006, 04:13 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I think it is safe to say it is not African. The trouble with books of the last century, and therefore many collectors and dealers is that some things are seen and catalogued in an absolutist manner. This is very noticeable with African artifacts. When in reality there was a flux between borders, styles and some cultural influences. Many an objects form may be governed by wealth and local materials. Looking at this area of SE Asia, I would not at all be surprised if this shield form, with some local differences did not cover thousands of miles N,S,W and E. Bill, what a fabulous glimpse at the depth of your collection. I like that adze.

15th October 2006, 04:44 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Well, when i look at the eBay example that Lew linked, while the form is similar the style of weaving appears to be a very different technique. Of course, this eBay example might not be African either for all i know.

15th October 2006, 08:48 PM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Maybe the book Basketry of the Luzon Cordillera, philippines can help about the weaving form