Fighting with keris

Lew · 12th October 2006, 01:27 AM

I always thought that the pamor and prayers used in making the keris would be passed on the the next person who owned it that is of course that they have respect fo the keris in the traditional sense? I also have heard stories that practioners prefer new keris due to the chance that an old one could carry bad or an evil aura or karma. So if a keris is made by a skilled panday or smith it should always carry some type of spirit in it especially from the maker who has put part of himself in the keris.

Lew

David · 12th October 2006, 03:34 AM

Well, we seem to be getting off on a tangent here since this thread is supposed to be about fighting with keris, using the keris as a physical weapon, not as a spiritual tool. But here we are.

You don't need to apologize for the mystical talk Pusaka, it's pretty difficult not to talk about it when it comes to keris.
As for what's alive or not, IMHO, it is clear to me that EVERYTHING is alive. This is not just a mystical philosophy, it is a scientific fact. EVERYTHING is alive on the sub-atomic level. I believe the sub-atomic is the conduit for the mystical/magical current. A trained "practitioner" can embue purpose and access power from a safety pin if necessary. Keris have been constructed for many different purposes over the centuries. Certainly the level of skill and attention, energy and prayers directed into that construction has helped to open these tools as a conduit for whatever purpose they were constructed for. But untimately it is my believe that in the end power resides in the practitioner, not the object. This doesn't mean that a properly constructed keris, embued with the right prayers and energy in accordance with that practitioners beliefs won't make a better conduit for the work that practitioner does with the keris.
If we are collecting old keris it seems somewhat unreasonable to think that a blade specially prepared to do a particular mystical/magickal working for a particular person from a foreign culture 2, 3 or 4 centuries ago will automatic deliver the same mystical/magickal energy to me. Likewise a keris pusaka that carries the energy of family power and lineage is not going to transfer the power and energy of that family's bloodline to me simply because it has somehow come into my hands. I must make my own pusaka if that is my purpose. For these reasons i can see why a silat practitioner who does not have bloodline ties to Indonesian culture might prefer to have a new keris to an old one, as Lew suggests, but if i were an Indonesian practitioner i think i would be quite happy with my father's keris.

VVV · 12th October 2006, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

I also have heard stories that practioners prefer new keris due to the chance that an old one could carry bad or an evil aura or karma.

Lew

This is also my experience. When Grand Tuhon Gaje started to visit me in Stockholm about 10 years ago he went through my old blades and sensed the vibes of them. Which ones who had killed somebody and those few that had not. He also told me that he didn't like old blades because of the bad forces that could live in them based on what they have been part of. The only antique blade that he used himself was the swords of his maternal grandfather. Otherwise he always preferred new blades made specifically for him. But at least my old sword mounted Lading from Sumba seems to be OK because that's the one he picked for the cover picture of the Swedish MA magazine Fighter.

I never asked my Silat/Kuntao teacher about this but he always also use new blades.

Michael

Pusaka · 12th October 2006, 11:07 AM

In most cases a new blade is better (because it is clean) as long as you can get someone to make a suitable blade to a reasonable standard. Today this however is becoming difficult because most won’t spend the time and will just hammer out the blade as fast as possible so that they can get started with the next order.
How can you make a blade come alive? Well there is a method but as lots of things in silat they don’t talk about it openly. Not only is there a method of making a blade come alive but there is also a method of erasing previous energies in the blade. When given a old keris it is standard practice to first clean it but its not just a physical cleaning.
In any case a blade that was used to kill and owned by a bad owner is seen as a dirty thing both physically and energetically.
A keris will setup an atmosphere around it which will effect all that encounter it whether it was made for them or not. A good keris will have positive effects whilst a bad keris will have negative effects.
If a person does not have the ability to sense that a keris is bad or good then he is advised to put it under his pillow and if it results in bad dreams the owner will not keep it no matter how beautiful the blade is.

12th October 2006, 01:27 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I always thought that the pamor and prayers used in making the keris would be passed on the the next person who owned it that is of course that they have respect fo the keris in the traditional sense? I also have heard stories that practioners prefer new keris due to the chance that an old one could carry bad or an evil aura or karma. So if a keris is made by a skilled panday or smith it should always carry some type of spirit in it especially from the maker who has put part of himself in the keris. Lew

12th October 2006, 03:34 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Well, we seem to be getting off on a tangent here since this thread is supposed to be about fighting with keris, using the keris as a physical weapon, not as a spiritual tool. But here we are. You don't need to apologize for the mystical talk Pusaka, it's pretty difficult not to talk about it when it comes to keris. As for what's alive or not, IMHO, it is clear to me that EVERYTHING is alive. This is not just a mystical philosophy, it is a scientific fact. EVERYTHING is alive on the sub-atomic level. I believe the sub-atomic is the conduit for the mystical/magical current. A trained "practitioner" can embue purpose and access power from a safety pin if necessary. Keris have been constructed for many different purposes over the centuries. Certainly the level of skill and attention, energy and prayers directed into that construction has helped to open these tools as a conduit for whatever purpose they were constructed for. But untimately it is my believe that in the end power resides in the practitioner, not the object. This doesn't mean that a properly constructed keris, embued with the right prayers and energy in accordance with that practitioners beliefs won't make a better conduit for the work that practitioner does with the keris. If we are collecting old keris it seems somewhat unreasonable to think that a blade specially prepared to do a particular mystical/magickal working for a particular person from a foreign culture 2, 3 or 4 centuries ago will automatic deliver the same mystical/magickal energy to me. Likewise a keris pusaka that carries the energy of family power and lineage is not going to transfer the power and energy of that family's bloodline to me simply because it has somehow come into my hands. I must make my own pusaka if that is my purpose. For these reasons i can see why a silat practitioner who does not have bloodline ties to Indonesian culture might prefer to have a new keris to an old one, as Lew suggests, but if i were an Indonesian practitioner i think i would be quite happy with my father's keris.

12th October 2006, 11:07 AM	#4
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	In most cases a new blade is better (because it is clean) as long as you can get someone to make a suitable blade to a reasonable standard. Today this however is becoming difficult because most won’t spend the time and will just hammer out the blade as fast as possible so that they can get started with the next order. How can you make a blade come alive? Well there is a method but as lots of things in silat they don’t talk about it openly. Not only is there a method of making a blade come alive but there is also a method of erasing previous energies in the blade. When given a old keris it is standard practice to first clean it but its not just a physical cleaning. In any case a blade that was used to kill and owned by a bad owner is seen as a dirty thing both physically and energetically. A keris will setup an atmosphere around it which will effect all that encounter it whether it was made for them or not. A good keris will have positive effects whilst a bad keris will have negative effects. If a person does not have the ability to sense that a keris is bad or good then he is advised to put it under his pillow and if it results in bad dreams the owner will not keep it no matter how beautiful the blade is.