Moro Pira for comment

wilked aka Khun Deng · 9th February 2005, 11:44 AM

Just a novice in this field with a little bit of book learning (I know, it's a dangerous mix) Cato mentions that the older of the two handle styles is the simpler form without much beveling and a fairly steep angle (that's a match) and in the barung section it shows (fig 21) a similar handle on a Yakan barung noting that it is similar to their pira handle. Yours definately has the short ferrule mentioned found on older Yakan barungs also. That combined with the obvious age of the horn, faded and grain separation, I'd say it is Yakan (Zamboanga and Basilan I believe was their main area) and well over the century mark.

mmontoro · 9th February 2005, 05:00 PM

Shelley, you got a nice sword that one doesn't see very often. Congratulations. I have posted both these images in the past, so I beg the forgiveness of oldtimers, but they do resemble yours stylistically. I believe they're 19th C or very early 20th C. Both have heavy blades, very thick just forward of the hilts. The top one has a delicate pattern of lamination and, if I recall correctly, the bottom example mainly shows a hardened edge after etching. Scabbards on these are not that common, a plus.

The second image is an old, hand colored photo of an individual ready to draw. If the image isn't flopped, the subject is left handed. It would certainly be a more interesting photo if the subject turned out to be female, but the more I look at the photo, the harder it is for me to form an opinion on the gender and age.

LabanTayo · 9th February 2005, 08:12 PM

manny, vandoo and wilked,
thanks for the info. i knew it might be Yakan, but was hoping to see if anyone knew of any other Moro ethnic groups that might use the Pira.
Age was the main thing I wanted to find out. I have a mid 20th century Pira, and I knew this one was older, but how much older? Are most of the examples seen like this from around the turn of the century, or is there a distinct quality that would state it as older (ie. short ferrule). Does the scabbard help state the age? does the way the hilt is more acute to the spine of the blade state its age? or maybe just the panday's/owners preference.

Ian · 10th February 2005, 02:46 AM

Definitely Yakan, as already mentioned.

A nice older example from the 19th C. judging by its appearance. Very hard to find the truly old ones, although pira in the older style are still being made. Most of the traditional style pira that we see are post-1920, according to my sources in Manila.

Cato says the pira is used almost exclusively by the Yakan, and my Filipino sources say the same thing.

Ian.

mmontoro · 10th February 2005, 03:41 PM

For more specific information about age you might check with Cecil Quirino, note the acquistion dates of any examples you are lucky enough to find in museum collections or try to date any photographs/postcards which depict them. Some of the more well read members in PI history and literature may have seen refernces to them in a publication with a known date. There seem to be few enough older Pira around that I think you are looking for needles in a haystack.

Federico · 10th February 2005, 10:58 PM

Ok, this is just my opinion, and I make no claims at being an expert. However, it would seem to me, that one would be most likely to find pira in pictures taken prior to 1920 more closely to the turn of the century for a few reasons. One after the American ban on traditional weaponry (Im forgetting the exact date), I would imagine the incidence of people wearing traditional weaponry, at least in front of American cameras, would have declined. Secondly, part of the reason I am more inclined to think pics with people wearing pira would be closer to the turn of the century, is that it is at this point, before the US administration started to tighten its grip in the region, that relations amongst US/Moros was most friendly, with few incidence of attacks against Americans reported, so this would be the time when it would be the most safe to take pics of armed persons. Finally, a pic taken by Maude Jenks, (I think it was taken by her, but I cant remember for sure) of a couple of warriors wearing pira was around the turn of the century, and is of striking similarity in style of picture to the type taken (not just the dress of the warrior, but also the picture style itself, the grainy BW, etc...). There is also a limited number of picture studios, and photographers who did this kind of subject at a time, and they were most popular in the early turn of the century. The following site/database is nice as it often contains the date of the pic and the studio name/photographer http://webcat.library.wisc.edu:3200/SEAiT/

While we most associate pira with Yakan, at least as far as Cato's book is concerned he does say the pira was found throughout the Sulu sultanate. However, he distinguishes the ones as Yakan as the ones featuring the typical Yakan features of abbreviated punto, and cockatua style.

Anyways, lovely pira.

zamboanga · 12th February 2005, 05:56 AM

indeed, piras are exclusive to yakans.

according to Sherfan (the yakans of basilan island, 1976) - the barong and the kris, although popular, are less valuable or admired among the Yakan.

Sherfan further mentions that in the 1700s the sultanate of Sulu ruled over the island of Basilan nominally and had little influence over the Yakans who lived in the interior.

as to the origins of the yakans, some sources claim they have strong links to dayaks of borneo while others claim the yakans have polynesian ancestors.

9th February 2005, 11:44 AM	#1
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	locale and age Just a novice in this field with a little bit of book learning (I know, it's a dangerous mix) Cato mentions that the older of the two handle styles is the simpler form without much beveling and a fairly steep angle (that's a match) and in the barung section it shows (fig 21) a similar handle on a Yakan barung noting that it is similar to their pira handle. Yours definately has the short ferrule mentioned found on older Yakan barungs also. That combined with the obvious age of the horn, faded and grain separation, I'd say it is Yakan (Zamboanga and Basilan I believe was their main area) and well over the century mark.

9th February 2005, 08:12 PM	#3
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	manny, vandoo and wilked, thanks for the info. i knew it might be Yakan, but was hoping to see if anyone knew of any other Moro ethnic groups that might use the Pira. Age was the main thing I wanted to find out. I have a mid 20th century Pira, and I knew this one was older, but how much older? Are most of the examples seen like this from around the turn of the century, or is there a distinct quality that would state it as older (ie. short ferrule). Does the scabbard help state the age? does the way the hilt is more acute to the spine of the blade state its age? or maybe just the panday's/owners preference. Last edited by LabanTayo; 9th February 2005 at 08:56 PM.

10th February 2005, 02:46 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,515	Nice example Definitely Yakan, as already mentioned. A nice older example from the 19th C. judging by its appearance. Very hard to find the truly old ones, although pira in the older style are still being made. Most of the traditional style pira that we see are post-1920, according to my sources in Manila. Cato says the pira is used almost exclusively by the Yakan, and my Filipino sources say the same thing. Ian.

9th February 2005, 05:00 PM	#2
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Shelley, you got a nice sword that one doesn't see very often. Congratulations. I have posted both these images in the past, so I beg the forgiveness of oldtimers, but they do resemble yours stylistically. I believe they're 19th C or very early 20th C. Both have heavy blades, very thick just forward of the hilts. The top one has a delicate pattern of lamination and, if I recall correctly, the bottom example mainly shows a hardened edge after etching. Scabbards on these are not that common, a plus. The second image is an old, hand colored photo of an individual ready to draw. If the image isn't flopped, the subject is left handed. It would certainly be a more interesting photo if the subject turned out to be female, but the more I look at the photo, the harder it is for me to form an opinion on the gender and age.

10th February 2005, 03:41 PM	#5
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	For more specific information about age you might check with Cecil Quirino, note the acquistion dates of any examples you are lucky enough to find in museum collections or try to date any photographs/postcards which depict them. Some of the more well read members in PI history and literature may have seen refernces to them in a publication with a known date. There seem to be few enough older Pira around that I think you are looking for needles in a haystack.

10th February 2005, 10:58 PM	#6
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Ok, this is just my opinion, and I make no claims at being an expert. However, it would seem to me, that one would be most likely to find pira in pictures taken prior to 1920 more closely to the turn of the century for a few reasons. One after the American ban on traditional weaponry (Im forgetting the exact date), I would imagine the incidence of people wearing traditional weaponry, at least in front of American cameras, would have declined. Secondly, part of the reason I am more inclined to think pics with people wearing pira would be closer to the turn of the century, is that it is at this point, before the US administration started to tighten its grip in the region, that relations amongst US/Moros was most friendly, with few incidence of attacks against Americans reported, so this would be the time when it would be the most safe to take pics of armed persons. Finally, a pic taken by Maude Jenks, (I think it was taken by her, but I cant remember for sure) of a couple of warriors wearing pira was around the turn of the century, and is of striking similarity in style of picture to the type taken (not just the dress of the warrior, but also the picture style itself, the grainy BW, etc...). There is also a limited number of picture studios, and photographers who did this kind of subject at a time, and they were most popular in the early turn of the century. The following site/database is nice as it often contains the date of the pic and the studio name/photographer http://webcat.library.wisc.edu:3200/SEAiT/ While we most associate pira with Yakan, at least as far as Cato's book is concerned he does say the pira was found throughout the Sulu sultanate. However, he distinguishes the ones as Yakan as the ones featuring the typical Yakan features of abbreviated punto, and cockatua style. Anyways, lovely pira.

12th February 2005, 05:56 AM	#7
zamboanga Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: zamboanga city, philippines Posts: 132	indeed, piras are exclusive to yakans. according to Sherfan (the yakans of basilan island, 1976) - the barong and the kris, although popular, are less valuable or admired among the Yakan. Sherfan further mentions that in the 1700s the sultanate of Sulu ruled over the island of Basilan nominally and had little influence over the Yakans who lived in the interior. as to the origins of the yakans, some sources claim they have strong links to dayaks of borneo while others claim the yakans have polynesian ancestors.