Heavy Nubian / Nigerian Short sword...age? comments?

Tim Simmons · 8th October 2006, 09:10 PM

I have never seen any of these ever!!!. Some better pics would help. Can we be sure of the opinion you show. Personally i am really not at all sure that this is African

.

katana · 8th October 2006, 10:18 PM

Hi Tim,
I have not yet received the sword....so better pics will have to come later. The seller trades alot of African items from West Africa and this is where the sword was sourced. Not that it proves IT IS African....personally my 'gut instinct' says African...the diagonal lines seem typical, the cylindrical 'guardless' hilt etc. The example on Therion is very similar in dimension, weight, the cylindrical hilt and blade design. The blade (on Therion)is 1 3/8" (3.4 cms) longer and is 1/2" (1.2 cm) wider, although mine weighs approx. 5 1/2 ozs more. (approx 150g).
The 'Gladius' was hugely successful for the Roman Army, seeing that the coastal areas of North Africa were Roman controlled for many years...I do not think it unreasonable that the design may have been adopted and spread via trading routes. In fact, I am surprised that 'gladius' styled swords seem very atypical,for Africa, especially in certain environments where swinging a larger sword would be awkward.
However, I really like the simplicity and 'meatyness' of this sword

and if they are rare......ish for Africa and this turns out to be from there.....then

Ian · 8th October 2006, 11:00 PM

Katana:

I think your sword is mostly likely from Benin (formerly Dahomey). The heavy bronze/brass hilt with chevron designs is typical of Benin work. There is a previous thread that considerd other Benin swords (hwe) here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=300

Ian.

katana · 8th October 2006, 11:18 PM

Thanks Ian,
now I can add a few more 'key words' in google and see what it turns up

Tim Simmons · 9th October 2006, 09:13 AM

I do beg your pardon. I have always associated "hwi" "ada" and "udamalore" as some of the finest and high status work of the city states of West Africa. Much like old fashioned city mayor regalia, its quality varies depending on it wealth and affiliation to the royal household. It does not look like a fighting weapon to me, what do you think? I felt unsure because of the apparent ageing to the brass with not a lot of sign of frequent fondling

I love saying that.

Lew · 9th October 2006, 12:33 PM

I have seen these swords before with claims they are from Nigeria? Hopefully this is not a Chinese copy of an African sword

Just think of it having the market flooded with chinese made repros of this type of stuff

Lew

katana · 9th October 2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Hopefully this is not a Chinese copy of an African sword

Just think of it having the market flooded with chinese made repros of this type of stuff

Lew

I think that unlikely.....why produce a 'copy' of an unfamiliar, plain sword from a continent thats not world famous for it's sword production ? Hardly good business sense.....even for the 'fake-makers'.

With the weight, thickness of the blade and its lack of adornment I believe this to be a functional weapon. Dahomey (Benin), Cameroon or neighbouring Nigeria seem likely. Considering the French involvement with Dahomey its not unreasonable to suggest that this sword could be a native copy of a 'cabbage cutter', the nickname for the short French issue side arm.
The area historically had many craftsmen that used 'lost wax' casting of bronze and brass ......again suggesting the same area. And as Ian has pointed out...the chevron 'motif' suggests Dahomey.

Lew .. when I receive the sword and if I find a stamp ' frabrique' en Chine'
I'll let you know

8th October 2006, 11:00 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Probably from Benin Katana: I think your sword is mostly likely from Benin (formerly Dahomey). The heavy bronze/brass hilt with chevron designs is typical of Benin work. There is a previous thread that considerd other Benin swords (hwe) here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=300 Ian.

8th October 2006, 09:10 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I have never seen any of these ever!!!. Some better pics would help. Can we be sure of the opinion you show. Personally i am really not at all sure that this is African .

8th October 2006, 10:18 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim, I have not yet received the sword....so better pics will have to come later. The seller trades alot of African items from West Africa and this is where the sword was sourced. Not that it proves IT IS African....personally my 'gut instinct' says African...the diagonal lines seem typical, the cylindrical 'guardless' hilt etc. The example on Therion is very similar in dimension, weight, the cylindrical hilt and blade design. The blade (on Therion)is 1 3/8" (3.4 cms) longer and is 1/2" (1.2 cm) wider, although mine weighs approx. 5 1/2 ozs more. (approx 150g). The 'Gladius' was hugely successful for the Roman Army, seeing that the coastal areas of North Africa were Roman controlled for many years...I do not think it unreasonable that the design may have been adopted and spread via trading routes. In fact, I am surprised that 'gladius' styled swords seem very atypical,for Africa, especially in certain environments where swinging a larger sword would be awkward. However, I really like the simplicity and 'meatyness' of this sword and if they are rare......ish for Africa and this turns out to be from there.....then

8th October 2006, 11:18 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Ian, now I can add a few more 'key words' in google and see what it turns up

9th October 2006, 09:13 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I do beg your pardon. I have always associated "hwi" "ada" and "udamalore" as some of the finest and high status work of the city states of West Africa. Much like old fashioned city mayor regalia, its quality varies depending on it wealth and affiliation to the royal household. It does not look like a fighting weapon to me, what do you think? I felt unsure because of the apparent ageing to the brass with not a lot of sign of frequent fondling I love saying that.

9th October 2006, 12:33 PM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I have seen these swords before with claims they are from Nigeria? Hopefully this is not a Chinese copy of an African sword Just think of it having the market flooded with chinese made repros of this type of stuff Lew