Questions about Mr. Khorasani's lecture

[Doug M]

Originally Posted by ariel

1. He says that the Roman Gladius Hispaniensis was a purely stabbing weapon and that Roman soldiers were forbidden to use it for slashing. Gladius was a double-edged sword; if it was intended to use as a purely stabbing weapon, what was the purpose of sharp edges? What soldier would even bother to sharpen the sword if the regulations forbade him to use it for slashing? Even Wickipedia cites Livy attesting to the slashing use of the Gladius. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladius

This is taken from Christopher Amberger from The Secret History of the Sword, page 162, based on "De re militarii" by the Roman author Flavius Vegetius Renarus (who wrote around A.D. 490):

"They were likewise taught not to cut, but to thrust with their swords. For the Romans not only made a jest of those who fought with the edge of that weapon, but always found them an easy conquest. Astroke with the edges, though made ever with so much force, seldom kills, as the vital parts of the body are defended both by the bone and armor. On the contrary, a stab, although it penetrates but two inches, is generally fatal."

[Rivkin]

There is a huge difference between "taught not to" and "prohibited to". I am probably going to repear myself saying that the lecture was a good one (in my opinion); also, lectures are obviously not something that is being edited/reviewed by others, but to some extent is a spontaneous event.

[ariel]

If slashing is so ineffective, Persian Shamshir would be the ultimate example of a useless weapon. The weapon most similar to the Roman Gladius (Caucasian Kindjal) was used mainly for slashing.
Also, whether Roman legionnaires occasionally used Gladius for slashing is not relevant: in the heat of the battle they probably smashed their enemies with sword handles
The point is that Gladius was constructed as a a double-edged sword. Thus, the slashing function was "built in" from the outset. With that in mind , any argument in favor of it's purely-stabbing function is plain silly.
Smallsword is a pure stabber, Omani Kattara (with a rounded point) is a pure slasher. Gladius was designed to do both.

[Doug M]

Originally Posted by ariel

If slashing is so ineffective, Persian Shamshir would be the ultimate example of a useless weapon. The weapon most similar to the Roman Gladius (Caucasian Kindjal) was used mainly for slashing.

You are presenting a straw man argument. Who else here has claimed that "slashing is so ineffective"?

Also, whether Roman legionnaires occasionally used Gladius for slashing is not relevant: in the heat of the battle they probably smashed their enemies with sword handles

Sorry, but it is "relevant."

The point is that Gladius was constructed as a a double-edged sword. Thus, the slashing function was "built in" from the outset. With that in mind , any argument in favor of it's purely-stabbing function is plain silly.

Are you a martial artist? Have you any experience with sparring with a weapon that has both a sharp point and edge (historical, accurate training, not fencing, wushu, or anything that is sport related)? Based on a weapon's characteristics, one will find use for everything if one explores the weapon carefully. But just because a weapon has both does not mean it will be used equally for cutting and thrusting. You mentioned the shamshir: it can cut and thrust, but will it be used more to cut than thrust? How about a niuweidao? How about a grosse messer? Simply because a tool has multiple functions does not mean it will be used to operate such functions all the time or even half the time. Assuming the position of equality here "is plain silly."

Smallsword is a pure stabber, Omani Kattara (with a rounded point) is a pure slasher. Gladius was designed to do both.

You have just compared apples, oranges, and bananas, each with a different purpose. Making an assumption about any of them without knowing for certain what that purpose was is, in your words, silly. I could do half-swording techniques with a dao, but I have yet to find such a technique verified by history. Just because a gladius could cut does not mean it was always used.