Ethiopian swords

Yannis · 5th October 2006, 08:55 AM

IMO it is rhino horn. As we have said before this material can take different colors, from light honey to almost black. The lighter the color, the more translucent the piece. Also it could be cut in different styles. In this hilt the grip is vertical (like |||) and the pommel is horizontal (like =). So to see the dots (the end of the hair) look the pommel in angle.

Bill M · 5th October 2006, 12:08 PM

will try to get an end view. not easy. Using strong backlighting. Picked up a little lens flare.

Trying to see what Lew means in his post rgarding the"horn Tubules" and "intertubular matrix." The names alone are worth a look! I think that the magnification they use in the article is beyond my camera's abilities.

Lew's link:
http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/dbms-witm...rhino_horn.htm

So for this and other reasons I am looking at microscope cameras on eBay! Hah! An excuse to buy more toys!

Yannis · 5th October 2006, 01:29 PM

Last pictures are very good and they add to rhino source. I think I can see at the top edge of the pommel the little dots. Imagine a packet of spaghetti. If you look it from one angle it looks like a bunch of wires. If you look from top angle it looks like a collection of rings.

Look there, between black lines.

Lew · 5th October 2006, 03:32 PM

Bill

I have two pieces in my collection one is the sword I posted the other is an Afar dagger with the same type of horn hilt it has both light and dark horn on it composite three separate pieces. I compared it to my rhino horn jambiya and I did the wet hand test. The hilt felt smooth to me the rhino horn jambiya on the other hand was a bit tacky. This is due to the matrix described earlier. I tried it again on the smooth part of the rhino hilt where there was no cross section of the fibers and it was smooth feeling? So maybe the sticky feeling is due do the cross section cutting the horn against the grain rather than with the grain? I also noticed that rhino horn when seen as against the grain looks like what you would see on the surface of an orange peel. Also that hole in the bottom piece of your sword is just like many I have seen on this type of sword including mine. Lastly considering there were probably tens of thousands of these swords made over the years the hilts would have to have been made from a more accessible and plentiful source such as cattle horn there just was not enough rhinos around to fill the bill.

Lew

Yannis · 5th October 2006, 05:22 PM

Well, I do not insist. I checked my rhino horns and their fiber structure is obvious than this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Lastly considering there were probably tens of thousands of these swords made over the years the hilts would have to have been made from a more accessible and plentiful source such as cattle horn there just was not enough rhinos around to fill the bill.
Lew

They were thousands of Rhinoceros that died the last 200 years mainly because their horns were demanded for sword and dagger hilts. The species threatened with extinction for this reason. And every horn makes lot of hilts. But we do not see so often antique rhino hilt in the market. They are rather rare.

As for the ouzo, you are all welcome for a drink with me, but I prefer raki.

roanoa · 5th October 2006, 03:43 PM

Sorry, Yannis. Gonna bet you a bottle of Uzo it's not rhino. I have quite a few swords with rhino hilts and a some with "cow" hilts. The difference is obvious when you see them side by side.

Bill M · 5th October 2006, 04:43 PM

Hi Lew and Roanoa,

I'll take the uzo and not care whether it is cow or rhino!

Will try to get a picture of the end grain.

maybe there were not a lot of rhinos around, but this swords seems really top knotch and maybe the owner splurged on rhino?

Maybe I need to bring it to Timonium when we meet again and let you have a 'hands-on' test?

Flavio · 5th October 2006, 04:53 PM

Rhino or not, it's beautiful!!!

Lew · 5th October 2006, 04:54 PM

Bill

Here are two photos from Artzi's website. Notice it is one piece and you can see the matrix of the horn. When you compare it to yours you can see there is a definate difference between the two hilts.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 5th October 2006, 05:27 PM

The Rhino horn I have is like the picture that Lew has post. The horn is dense and fibrous so as to not let light into the material. Also it can very nearly look like wood as opposed to horn.

5th October 2006, 12:08 PM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	will try to get an end view. not easy. Using strong backlighting. Picked up a little lens flare. Trying to see what Lew means in his post rgarding the"horn Tubules" and "intertubular matrix." The names alone are worth a look! I think that the magnification they use in the article is beyond my camera's abilities. Lew's link: http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/dbms-witm...rhino_horn.htm So for this and other reasons I am looking at microscope cameras on eBay! Hah! An excuse to buy more toys! Attached Images Last edited by Bill Marsh; 5th October 2006 at 12:18 PM.

5th October 2006, 01:29 PM	#3
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Last pictures are very good and they add to rhino source. I think I can see at the top edge of the pommel the little dots. Imagine a packet of spaghetti. If you look it from one angle it looks like a bunch of wires. If you look from top angle it looks like a collection of rings. Look there, between black lines. Attached Images Last edited by Yannis; 5th October 2006 at 02:30 PM.

5th October 2006, 04:54 PM	#9
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill Here are two photos from Artzi's website. Notice it is one piece and you can see the matrix of the horn. When you compare it to yours you can see there is a definate difference between the two hilts. Lew Attached Images

5th October 2006, 08:55 AM	#1
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	IMO it is rhino horn. As we have said before this material can take different colors, from light honey to almost black. The lighter the color, the more translucent the piece. Also it could be cut in different styles. In this hilt the grip is vertical (like \|\|\|) and the pommel is horizontal (like =). So to see the dots (the end of the hair) look the pommel in angle.

5th October 2006, 03:32 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill I have two pieces in my collection one is the sword I posted the other is an Afar dagger with the same type of horn hilt it has both light and dark horn on it composite three separate pieces. I compared it to my rhino horn jambiya and I did the wet hand test. The hilt felt smooth to me the rhino horn jambiya on the other hand was a bit tacky. This is due to the matrix described earlier. I tried it again on the smooth part of the rhino hilt where there was no cross section of the fibers and it was smooth feeling? So maybe the sticky feeling is due do the cross section cutting the horn against the grain rather than with the grain? I also noticed that rhino horn when seen as against the grain looks like what you would see on the surface of an orange peel. Also that hole in the bottom piece of your sword is just like many I have seen on this type of sword including mine. Lastly considering there were probably tens of thousands of these swords made over the years the hilts would have to have been made from a more accessible and plentiful source such as cattle horn there just was not enough rhinos around to fill the bill. Lew

5th October 2006, 03:43 PM	#6
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Sorry, Yannis. Gonna bet you a bottle of Uzo it's not rhino. I have quite a few swords with rhino hilts and a some with "cow" hilts. The difference is obvious when you see them side by side.

5th October 2006, 04:43 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Hi Lew and Roanoa, I'll take the uzo and not care whether it is cow or rhino! Will try to get a picture of the end grain. maybe there were not a lot of rhinos around, but this swords seems really top knotch and maybe the owner splurged on rhino? Maybe I need to bring it to Timonium when we meet again and let you have a 'hands-on' test?

5th October 2006, 04:53 PM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Rhino or not, it's beautiful!!!

5th October 2006, 05:27 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	The Rhino horn I have is like the picture that Lew has post. The horn is dense and fibrous so as to not let light into the material. Also it can very nearly look like wood as opposed to horn.