Yatagan questions

RSWORD · 4th October 2006, 03:40 AM

While we cannot determine from your pictures whether or not your blades are wootz I can say that there are examples of wootz bladed yataghans, albeit not that common. There is a lovely example of one pictured in Sasche's book "Damascus Steel" on p. 79, figure 127. I also know of several examples in private collections.

erlikhan · 4th October 2006, 10:38 AM

Zifir,sorry.

My confusement because the dates of the two swords are very similar. I didnt notice the date on the gold one and thought you wrote 1216 for the upper picture. Then yes, gold one is a real rarity and beauty,as it is so complete and intact with especially 300 years of age! And about literacy level of artisans writing on yataghans, yes I have heard it from several experts before.Much of them were inscribed by less literate swordmakers, perhaps many of them just copying 'shapes' written on a paper and given to them.

Zifir · 4th October 2006, 05:25 PM

The second line in the first gold inscription still escapes me. But I have the translation for the second gold inscription. This time I got a little assistance from a friend who has more literary taste than I do. So you won't be exposed to my terribble translation for once

Ey gönül bir can içün her cana zillet eyleme
İşret-i dünya içün sultana zillet eyleme

Do not hold oh heart all the lives in contempt just for a life
Do not abase the sultan for the pleasures of mundane life

Spunjer · 30th November 2006, 03:07 PM

i'm pretty sure this is wootz, but i could be wrong. my blade lamination knowledge stops at filo weapons...

ariel · 30th November 2006, 05:04 PM

Very interesting.
We usually have a knee-jerk reaction of calling every wootz blade "Persian" or "Indian" as if the knowledge how to make wootz was limited to these 2 countries.
But here are Yataghan blades, typical Ottoman weapon and ... made of wootz.
Were there Persian/Indian masters in Turkey? Do we need to postulate their existence at all?
I guess there were enough Turkish, Caucasian and Balkan masters who knew how to make wootz blades.

Battara · 1st December 2006, 08:20 PM

I would say this looks like Persian wootz. Turkish wootz is so faint it is hard to see (unless it is a well etched Turkish wootz).

Lucky jerk!

30th November 2006, 03:07 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i'm pretty sure this is wootz, but i could be wrong. my blade lamination knowledge stops at filo weapons... Attached Images

4th October 2006, 03:40 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	While we cannot determine from your pictures whether or not your blades are wootz I can say that there are examples of wootz bladed yataghans, albeit not that common. There is a lovely example of one pictured in Sasche's book "Damascus Steel" on p. 79, figure 127. I also know of several examples in private collections.

4th October 2006, 10:38 AM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Zifir,sorry. My confusement because the dates of the two swords are very similar. I didnt notice the date on the gold one and thought you wrote 1216 for the upper picture. Then yes, gold one is a real rarity and beauty,as it is so complete and intact with especially 300 years of age! And about literacy level of artisans writing on yataghans, yes I have heard it from several experts before.Much of them were inscribed by less literate swordmakers, perhaps many of them just copying 'shapes' written on a paper and given to them.

4th October 2006, 05:25 PM	#3
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	The second line in the first gold inscription still escapes me. But I have the translation for the second gold inscription. This time I got a little assistance from a friend who has more literary taste than I do. So you won't be exposed to my terribble translation for once Ey gönül bir can içün her cana zillet eyleme İşret-i dünya içün sultana zillet eyleme Do not hold oh heart all the lives in contempt just for a life Do not abase the sultan for the pleasures of mundane life

30th November 2006, 05:04 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Very interesting. We usually have a knee-jerk reaction of calling every wootz blade "Persian" or "Indian" as if the knowledge how to make wootz was limited to these 2 countries. But here are Yataghan blades, typical Ottoman weapon and ... made of wootz. Were there Persian/Indian masters in Turkey? Do we need to postulate their existence at all? I guess there were enough Turkish, Caucasian and Balkan masters who knew how to make wootz blades.

1st December 2006, 08:20 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	I would say this looks like Persian wootz. Turkish wootz is so faint it is hard to see (unless it is a well etched Turkish wootz). Lucky jerk!