Fighting with keris

[Georgia]

Hi David

Thanks for your interest! Seven of the blades had much lower levels, ie less than 0.1mg/L (which was the smallest amount discernable on the test's reference colour scale, although all of the tests showed some colour change, ie greater than 0.0mg/L). Because the colour scale is logarithmic (0, 0.1, 0.5, 1.0 etc) it's hard to be precise about the exact quantity of arsenic in each solution when the colour of the test strip doesn't exactly correspond to a colour on the chart; it's safer to just say 'under 0.1mg/L'.

The process for preparing the sample was to collect a solid sample from the surface of the blade (under the microscope), usually from within the crevice between the gonjo and the blade or in the deeper parts of the ricikan, and allow this to soak in water for 30 mins-1 hr. In a couple of cases the surface was too uniform and so a small area would be swabbed with water and the swab allowed to soak. I also tested swabbing and solubilising with ethanol, in the cases where old coatings of oil may have interefered with the solubility of the sample in water. With such a small sample size, I'm not sure how valuable an average is, but I'd say it's about 0.1 mg/L.

While it's true that a much larger dose is required to be instantly fatal, there's a lot of grey area in between being well and being dead! Arsenic can affect health in the short term (nausea, diarrhea, skin problems) and long term (problems with skin, gastrointestinal tract, nervous system, mucous membranes, lungs, and liver). Long term exposure has been linked to cancer.
As I mentioned, it would have to be pretty unlikely for a person handling one of the two keris with the strong positive results to absorb enough arsenic to be a concern, however I think it's better that staff be aware of the potential hazard and perhaps just be that little bit more careful when handling them.
On one of the blades there was a powdery residue on the surface which was easily dislodged. If, for example, a conservator was to brush clean this (thinking it was dust) and breathed it in, it might be enough to make them crook. Most staff would be wearing gloves anyway when handling metal objects, and I don't think there'd be much licking going on, so this is the only way I can think of where it might be a concern.

I don't know if this is going to change your mind about the way you handle your own keris, and I don't know that it necessarily should; I do think though that staff working in public museums should be aware of potential risks, no matter how slight, when handling objects they perhaps have no prior knowledge of.

I hope this has answered all your questions!

[Georgia]

Hi Alan - we must have been writing the last post simultaneously, so I just missed yours! Thanks for your reply, I think that's a very valid point you have made about the possibility of corroding iron releasing arsenic from the patination layer; the blade I tested which had the strongest result certainly had a powdery whitish-grey residue on the surface and the blade itself was not in the best condition. However, the other blade with a strong positive was in a much better condition and did not have much in the way of surface residues, in fact the only reason I chose it from the 40-odd keris in the collection was because it of one of the darkest and most obviously stained. The sample I picked from its surface was an oily sort of gunk from along the gonjo.
Regarding the possibility of arsenic being present in the iron, that is definitely a possibility (I think arsenic is one of the main trace elements found in iron), but I don't know if it would be there in large enough amounts to be picked up by the Merck test. In any case, the samples collected were of the residues and not the metal itself, so I don't think this is very likely.
One other possible cause is the 19th century museum practice of slathering collection items with arsenic to kill pests - although this was usually confined to natural history/organic collections, perhaps someone decided it would be worth it to protect the handles and sheaths?
My project's coming along steadily, I'll send it to you in the next few weeks to have a look. Got five more weeks til it's due! Thanks for your help.
G

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, I reckon that muck that gets in around the gonjo would certainly have arsenic in it. Even in one of my nice clean shiny keris with a perfectly patinated surface I reckon you could dig something out from between the gonjo and the blade proper that would test for arsenic.

What I reckon you could not do would be to remove sufficient of anything from the surface of a properly maintained blade to get a positive on arsenic.

I could probably dig up Jerzy's results if they interest you. Any sort of luck I could probably put my hand right on them. That would allow you to assess the relevance or otherwise of occurrence of natural arsenic in the material.

Again---looking forward to seeing it.

Wrote the above before reading the "simultaneous" post.

Reading how and where you took you samples, there is no doubt in my mind that you would find an arsenic positive.

However, from the standpoint of a museum professional, I really do believe that this presence of arsenic should be identified as a potential hazard---mind you, I do not believe for one second that it is, but anything that you can use to jack up your pitifully inadequate rates of pay should be treasured. Don`t fail to tell your union what you found. Make sure that when a workplace agreement is on the table that any handling of keris or other SE Asian edged weapons draws a hazchem subsidy---or something similar.
Professionals deserve decent pay for what they do, and if there is a hazard involved---be it ever so slight---it should be used appropriately.

[Georgia]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I could probably dig up Jerzy's results if they interest you. Any sort of luck I could probably put my hand right on them. That would allow you to assess the relevance or otherwise of occurrence of natural arsenic in the material.

That'd be great if you could, I'd be very interested.

[David]

Thanks for you response and clarification of your methods Georgia. I agree with both you and Alan that museum workers should certainly be made aware of these findings. Considering the condition of these blades prudence would be wise even if any danger is unlikely. I am glad these clarification have been made because your original statement that "it (arsenic) is certainly present in sufficient amounts to cause adverse health effects" seemed unnecessarily alarmist to this group of collectors who in all probability maintain their collections in much better condition than the museum seems to do. You would find no surface residue on the keris in my collection (and certainly no white powdery substance) and though there may be something hiding in the crevaces of the gonjo it seems highly unlikely that i am at risk of ingesting any of the substance or even absorbing it through the skin. I hope you understand that i also am not discounting your research which is indeed very interesting and valuable, but i am trying to put this information into perspective for the audience you are addressing on this forum. Of course, if there are any paranoid collectors out there who want to now get rid of their collection cheap i would be happy to help them out. I look foward to hearing more about your findings when your project is completed.

[RobT]

Hi All,
Stone's description of warding with a sheath or keris is exactly the same technique that is used with Okinawan sai. The sai, which resemble European poingards save that they have no edge or point, are used in pairs. The large quillons serve to catch sword blades and also to revolve the weapon so that it can be held either blade or pommel out. If held pommel out, the blade acts as a guard for the forearm (the blade should be long enough to extend about 1" past the elbow) and the pommel can be used to strike a blow. Stone, on pg 422 item #17, lists a mace (that is exactly like an Okinawan sai) as Chinese. If this attribution is correct, then perhaps the Indonesian method that Stone reported has its roots in some form of Chinese martial arts.
On a completely different note: Is there any possibility that amok has its roots in the Hindu weapon classification of mukta/amukta?
Sincerely,
RobT

[zartane]

salam to all,

I'm not an expert on types of keris, etc but i hv been activley involved in martial arts for the past ten years especially silats from peninsular malaysia and a few from javanese style .. Had to give my thoughts of view regarding the main topic or as i might say 'questions' raised by Mr. Bram because the replies had been "off-topic".. My answers will be only based on what my guru's taught me and none of my own opinion so, don't ask me for historical facts..

Mr. Bram's brought up the fact that keris is not used for fighting or combat in Jawa but silats in Malaysia, it is the main weapon taught for fighting. He then asked for explaination on when did the keris in Jawa ceased to be used in normal fighting? >> here goes>> my answer would be, the Javanese lost their trust in keris as a main weapon for fighting since Majapahit's warrior named Tameng Sari died in a duel with Hang Tuah from Malacca. Taming Sari was so great at that time in the Jawa land, thus the defeat of Taming Sari (which was stabbed by his own keris) made a big impact for the whole of indonesia and ceased their trust on keris as a responsible weapon to defend themselves..

Second question, about the hilt.. both ways (Malay and Javanese) of attaching the hilt to the keris is different, one is horizontal and the other paralel with the blade. It is true that the Malay way of holding the hilt (like holding a gun) will hold the blade in a position that would readily be able to slip between ribs but bare in mind that you cannot hold the hilt the same way for Javanese kerises!! There is a different way of holding the Javanese keris which will also make the blade parallel and readily able to slip between ribs.. i have two pictures for example and as you can see, both blades are positioned the same, just the hand gripping way is different..

I could see that someone has already showed a picture of gripping the Javanese keris but seems quiet wrong to me as it not firm and your grip has to be straight along with your arm, just like punching, or you can't even thrust a banana tree with that style of gripping. AND you would be easily disarmed just by being kicked on the wrist..

Some replies also questioned that the Javanese slip their keris at the back, while malays slip it on their front. It is not the question of which one is practically logic for fast drawing their weapon or sticking the keris at the front is easier to pull out in a combat, but there is a greater reason to that!
Most of the pencak in Javanese Style prefer very low stance pattern (kuda-kuda). While you are performing bunga or langkah in a very low manner, it is impossible to slip a keris into your belt in front of your body (especially long ones!!) that is why they slip it at the back.. Unlike silat styles from Malaysia which uses higher stance in their silat form, it is still comfortable to slip the keris infront..

Not to mention, holding the keris Javanese style is more efficient to make a thrust from a lower position than holding a malay keris the malay way. And vice versa, it is more devastating to hold a malay keris the malay way if using a higher stance than using a Javanese keris. That is why it is important to choose the right type of keris with the right type of "lok" when fighting your opponent.

And there is a post that mentioned holding a keris looks familiar as holding a "sai" or "tcabang" in Indonesia or "tekpi" in malaysia.. believe me, they are not the same, as i also master the movement of "sai's"..

Thanks.