500 years of Portuguese-Siamese relations

[Antonio Cejunior]

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

De Brito's exploits were atypical for how Portugal handled relations with most East Asian countries, though. Their big asset (at least in Burma and Siam) were weapons for trade, and weapons technology itself, which they used as a basis for establishing firm relations. Military superiority used as a trade commodity, rather than for conquest. Interestingly, there is a group of people in Burma that are descended from Portuguese metallurgists and gunners who entered the service of the king hundreds of years ago, and settled permanently, intermarrying with the Burmese. They apparently remain a distinct community today.

Hi Mark,

Indeed, and as a Portuguese from Asia, I am very touched by this. At this historical distance it is of the utmost importance for the world to, in total honesty acknowledge the importance of the Portuguese and to further study the travels of Fernão Mendes Pinto, classified as an adventurer but whose life would make one big movie as sometimes reality transcends fiction.

I happen to finished scanning some photographs of that community in Burma that you mention.
I hope you and everyone else interested can find the Bayingyi of the River Mu a living proof of that miscigenation.


Very best

[RhysMichael]

Thanks for letting us know about this I look forward to reading it

[Antonio Cejunior]

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Thanks for letting us know about this I look forward to reading it

Your most welcome. Are you referring to Fernão Mendes Pinto?
I just pointed out to a dear friend this Link

[Philip]

Gentlemen,
I much enjoyed this thread, thanks to Antonio for the historical information.
One of my "pet" projects is studying and collecting the various forms of the Indo-Portuguese matchlock gun which was introduced into much of SE Asia and the Far East in the early 16th cent., and which remained in use well into the 19th cent. in China/Japan/Korea and even into the 20th in Vietnam and Malaya.

Anyway, I thought you guys would enjoy reading THE LAND OF THE GREAT IMAGE, by Maurice Collis, publ. by Alfred A. Knopf in 1943 (there are subsequent ppb editions). The author, born 1889, was a longtime civil servant for the British colonial administration in Burma. The book chronicles the journey of a Portuguese friar, Sebastiao Manrique, to the southern Burmese region of Arakan early in the 17th cent. Enriching the account of the cleric's adventures are detailed descriptions of Indo-Portuguese society at Goa, the intrigue and power-plays which beset the Burmese court, and a chilling account of an unfortunate Frenchman's experiences with the Inquisition in Portuguese India.

[~Alaung_Hpaya~]

Originally Posted by Antonio Cejunior

Hi Mark,

Indeed, and as a Portuguese from Asia, I am very touched by this. At this historical distance it is of the utmost importance for the world to, in total honesty acknowledge the importance of the Portuguese and to further study the travels of Fernão Mendes Pinto, classified as an adventurer but whose life would make one big movie as sometimes reality transcends fiction.

I happen to finished scanning some photographs of that community in Burma that you mention.
I hope you and everyone else interested can find the Bayingyi of the River Mu a living proof of that miscigenation.


Very best

The Bayingyi from those I've come across are on the whole mainly distinct by religion alone . They are in all other respects not just Burmese but culturally Bama . Some have distinguishing features like a caucasian nose or are generally of taller , sturdier build or sometimes just hairier than the average Burmese . There are many more Buddhist Burmese who come from the Mu valley and surrounding areas who have distinctly caucasoid features who will no doubt not even be aware that they have Portugese genes.

Burma is a land of great diversity and mixed ethnicity and near enough 400 years has passed . Most Bama are mixed with war captives whether they be Mon , Shan , Lao , Lanna , Siamese , Portugese or Manipuri . At one time a fifth of Ava was populated by war captives .

They are a great example of tolerance from a society and compassion from monarchs . Given the era at which this relocation of war captives occurred and the length of time which has passed , a similar situation in Europe would be unthinkable ( I would imagine forced conversion to Christianity and a brutal suppression of identity ) .

[Antonio Cejunior]

Thanks for the added information Alaung
The link refers to a book and also a documentary that was made by a photographer and a cameraman, the later stationed in Macau and the former is an ex-resident.
Tolerance has always been the Eastern principle.

I have never been to Burma, but one of the Museum drivers is Burmese, and we sometimes talk a lot, although he does not know the Bayingyi. But I have been to Thailand often enough to love Thai people.

There's a book called Ou Mun Kei Leok, Memoirs/Registries of Macau done by two schollarly Mandarins of the 17th. century where they analyze the Portuguese in Macau and their habits.

Even in those days, Buddhist priests considered their catholic counterparts as colleagues while the later defined the monks as envoys of the demon.
So much for fundamentalism...

[~Alaung_Hpaya~]

My family have a distinctive non Burmese nose and many are afflicted by European body hair . Although no one knows for sure , it is frequently joked that we must have Portugese ancestors .


Two of my great grandparents come from the Mu area ( which is considered one of the Bama heartlands ) and it is from them that the dominant nose is inherited . I am also informed that a great great great grandfather from that line and his brother served in the king's army . One in the cavalry and the other as a gunner . Portugese descendants have been part of the Royal Gunners since the 17th century .

The Burmese king Mindon (1853-1876) moved the capital of his kingdom to Mandalay in June 1857. A painting from that period shows dark red, three-pointed flags with a black cross in the middle. It is not known if these flags were Mindon's standards, army or national flags. The cross might be associated with Christianity since missionaries were already present in the area in the 1850's. The British troops entered in Mandalay on 28 November 1885 and Burma was attached to the British Empire on 1 January 1886. The new colony of Upper-Burma was later attached to Indian Empire on 26 February 1886.
Source: H. Calvarin, Franciae Vexilla #20/66, December 2000.
Ivan Sache, 19 December 2000

Flags of Burma : Historical

This author correctly speculates that the cross represents christianity but is not aware that this is the standard of King Mindon's household artillery who were predominantly made up of Christian Portugese descendants.

There are probably thousands of Portugese descendants in Burma .