Keris Banjarmasin

Alam Shah · 19th September 2006, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't own this book, but i imagine your take on this reference is correct. I will, however, question the reference itself. Siva Bhairava ia an aspect of the god Siva (though certainly a terrible aspect). Bhuta Nawasari, as prince or king of the raksasa, is a demon. Can gods be demons (or visa versa) in the Hindu religion?

It's this book: The Indonesian Kris, A symbol charged weapon, written in Danish with English summaries. Hmmm... while checking the reference, I misunderstoond the meaning...Oppss!

my mistake. I guess the forms are not the same. The hilt form is either one of the 3. Which one, I don't know, sorry. Perhaps others can assist.

VVV · 19th September 2006, 07:00 AM

I think Karsten means that the three aspects are the same - direct, or indirect, manifestations of an aspect of Shiva Bhairavi.

Kerner also mentions this in "the big book" p. 77-81.
The logic seems to be, according to Kerner, that Bhutanata is Shiva as the Lord of the evil spirits. The Bhutas serve Bhutanata as punishers when he is a judge. The Bhutas eat flesh and drink blood. Bhuta Navasari is also known as Raksasa Bhairawa. The Bhairawas are the 8 x 8 terrible manifestations of Shiva.

Michael

Marcokeris · 19th September 2006, 08:04 AM

Alam,
Kerner's book is "keris griffe aus museen und privat sammlungen" pag. 144.

David,
I think the handle comes from Jawa only for a certain similarity with tegal /cirebon handle and for the base of handle that is simply curved without angles (but it is only my impression, my be it comes from Bali. Also the seller didn't know where it comes)

Alam Shah · 19th September 2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Alam,
Kerner's book is "keris griffe aus museen und privat sammlungen" pag. 144.

No wonder I cannot find.

I don't have that book. Btw, Kerner do have a few books.

19th September 2006, 07:00 AM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I think Karsten means that the three aspects are the same - direct, or indirect, manifestations of an aspect of Shiva Bhairavi. Kerner also mentions this in "the big book" p. 77-81. The logic seems to be, according to Kerner, that Bhutanata is Shiva as the Lord of the evil spirits. The Bhutas serve Bhutanata as punishers when he is a judge. The Bhutas eat flesh and drink blood. Bhuta Navasari is also known as Raksasa Bhairawa. The Bhairawas are the 8 x 8 terrible manifestations of Shiva. Michael

19th September 2006, 08:04 AM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Alam, Kerner's book is "keris griffe aus museen und privat sammlungen" pag. 144. David, I think the handle comes from Jawa only for a certain similarity with tegal /cirebon handle and for the base of handle that is simply curved without angles (but it is only my impression, my be it comes from Bali. Also the seller didn't know where it comes)