Madura Wrongko's of Various Types?

David · 18th September 2006, 04:47 PM

Thanks Shahrial. You might have a tougher time getting me to show the blades.

That first one is a beauty indeed. This is one of my few all modern keris (dress and blade), with a late 20thC blade. I am very pleased this level of craftsmanship still exists.

A. G. Maisey · 18th September 2006, 11:22 PM

I possibly may have examples of gabilan and brahmana rsi around somewhere, but I can`t put my hand on them, and right now I do not have time to look. The highly carved example with the horse handle, that David posted, would be a gabilan. Brahmana rsi is more scarce, and is also highly carved, but is a fatter style.The examples I saw in the museum gave every appearance of being quite old.

With motifs on handles, a crown and tumpal ( a triangular pattern) is normally associated with Pamekesan, the winged horse and a dragon with Suminep.

What I meant by "---win in court---" was that I like to be pretty positive about something if I state that something is so. I may still be wrong, but if I say something is so, I want to be able to mount a case based on evidence and/or logical argument, that will prove my point or position. I dislike intensely, hypothesis presented as fact.

Yes, I agree, it does help if everybody can use the same terminology in a discussion. One of the great advantages of Harsrinuksmo`s ensiklopedi is that it provides a very adequate vocabulary to allow keris discussion. In describing or discussing keris, I will often not use the terminology or names that I have learnt over the years, and will instead opt to use the terms that everybody understands.I think everybody generally understands Surakarta terms for wrongkos, so I usually use these terms, rather than try to use the correct regional term for type of wrongko. With the handle of a keris , I usually use the word "handle", simply because there are several words in general use in Jawa---ukiran, jejeran, gagang---and the name for a handle varies from place to place, so I use handle as the word everybody understands. Even in Bali, dealers who sell keris handles now refer to them as "endel".

The stories might have to wait.

Naga Sasra · 18th September 2006, 11:40 PM

Alan, I knew that there would properly be a reaction with the photos of the mamas sandang walikat, and generally speaking it is perhaps more prevelent to say that the mamas wrongko is associated with East Jawa more so than Madura, but there is a fine line (and a short distance) on this one as I have seen many mamas attributed to Madura.
In my humble opinion it is sort of a "cross dresser" much like the wrongko's with Kala Langgam which as a Madura fashion can be seen in Bali, East Jawa, Central Jawa and even as an ornament on a presently listed Bugis Keris.

A few more:

A. G. Maisey · 19th September 2006, 12:31 AM

Yeah, those kala topengans seem to crop up all over the place, but although the motif is found in a number of places, the interpretation is always different. I have often seen pics of the Madura style attributed to Bali, which is understandable, because although it may be "made in Madura", the root is Bali.Just as with the bright yellow gayam style wrongko that I posted a pic of.

With the mamas sandang walikats, I have seen them, and owned them, with Madura blades, and Madura handles, and as Madura is a part of East Jawa, I don`t have any problem at all with recognising that we can find the mamas SW in Madura, just as we can find it in East Jawa, Central Jawa, North Coast Jawa---in fact all over the place.

However, going back maybe 35 years a very well known collector who lived in Malang, East Jawa, told me that this was a uniquely East Javanese form of wrongko. He may have been wrong, but he should have known what he was talking about , because of where he was based.I have never come across anybody in Central Jawa who wanted to give these wrongkos anything other than an East Jawa attribution.

A big problem with something like this is that we just do not know where it originated, when, or for what reason. We can't associate it with a kraton---which would make things easy for us. All we have is this pretty scarce form of wrongko that is a more or less Javanese form, but in metal.

On Madura you have two major centres:- Suminep, which has a Kraton, and Pamekesan which is a Kabupaten, or regency. The towns associated with these places are just like country towns. Suminep is like a little country town, but the area it governs is very broad, because it covers a lot of little islands.
The countryside in Madura is dry, and poor. Wages there are depressed, there is virtually no industry, tobacco is grown, cattle are raised, and rice is almost in the luxury class.This is today I`m talking about.

Take it back 100 years or so.

I have a wee bit of difficulty in thinking of these mamas wrongkos as the product of a place that would have been essentially a poor, rural area.

A short journey by ferry from Madura we have Surabaya. Big, populous, lots of industry---currently drowning in mud from an uncapped oil test drilling. Been a big city for a long time.

These mamas SW's are never gimpy, cobbled together things---at least not in my experience---they show precision and skill in manufacture. The type of precision and skill one would expect to find in a city like Surabaya.

On the other hand, the keris fittings from Madura demonstrate lavish detail in carving, the type of thing that artist/farmers can do when they are filling in time before or after work, or in between seasons.

To my eye, the stern simplicity of the mamas SW just does not fit into the Madura artistic template.

But it does look like the product of advanced metal working techniques.

OK---here`s one of those hypotheses that I dislike so much:-

mamas sandang walikat wrongkos were possibly initially manufactured in Surabaya, and exported to other parts of East Jawa, including Madura.

Naga Sasra · 23rd September 2006, 04:05 PM

Mamas Sandang Walikats.

The problem with attributions is, a large percentage of them are inaccurate in nature, that be weather from published Keris literature and most often from sales catalogs, including those from the larger specialty auction houses.

That said, your logical explanation of the Maduran artistic template is well taken, and I for one would tend to agree with your post and certainly honor the opinion of the very well known collector from Malang.

Attached a few more. One highly carved wrongko is quite common and of very recent make, the second one is more of a question mark, and I would really like the forums opinion on this one??

David · 23rd September 2006, 04:45 PM

That first modern example is quite nice. The Madurese knack for wood carving doesn't seem to have diminished much over the years.

That second one is a puzzler. I can't say i have seen this style of sheath from either Jawa or Madura before. To my eye it is more like a cross between Bugis and Madurese forms. The pendok looks more Javanese to me though. Hopefully other will know better than i.

Alam Shah · 23rd September 2006, 05:22 PM

A similar wrangka... (ignore the fittings), what do you think.

Naga Sasra · 23rd September 2006, 09:34 PM

Yes, the Madurese has not lost their flair for wood carving and even though this is a decorative wrongko most likely made for the tourist trade, they tend to apply that unmistakable level of workmanship.

As for the second one, it certainly look like Shahrial's wrongko is from the very same culture, one thing noticeable is both of them have a pendok in the Yogya/Central Javanese older style with the top edge arched.

Shahrial, do you know the origin of the wrongko on your piece?

18th September 2006, 11:40 PM	#3
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Alan, I knew that there would properly be a reaction with the photos of the mamas sandang walikat, and generally speaking it is perhaps more prevelent to say that the mamas wrongko is associated with East Jawa more so than Madura, but there is a fine line (and a short distance) on this one as I have seen many mamas attributed to Madura. In my humble opinion it is sort of a "cross dresser" much like the wrongko's with Kala Langgam which as a Madura fashion can be seen in Bali, East Jawa, Central Jawa and even as an ornament on a presently listed Bugis Keris. A few more: Attached Images

23rd September 2006, 04:05 PM	#5
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Mamas Sandang Walikats. The problem with attributions is, a large percentage of them are inaccurate in nature, that be weather from published Keris literature and most often from sales catalogs, including those from the larger specialty auction houses. That said, your logical explanation of the Maduran artistic template is well taken, and I for one would tend to agree with your post and certainly honor the opinion of the very well known collector from Malang. Attached a few more. One highly carved wrongko is quite common and of very recent make, the second one is more of a question mark, and I would really like the forums opinion on this one?? Attached Images

23rd September 2006, 05:22 PM	#7
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	A similar wrangka... (ignore the fittings), what do you think. Attached Images

18th September 2006, 04:47 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thanks Shahrial. You might have a tougher time getting me to show the blades. That first one is a beauty indeed. This is one of my few all modern keris (dress and blade), with a late 20thC blade. I am very pleased this level of craftsmanship still exists.

18th September 2006, 11:22 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I possibly may have examples of gabilan and brahmana rsi around somewhere, but I can`t put my hand on them, and right now I do not have time to look. The highly carved example with the horse handle, that David posted, would be a gabilan. Brahmana rsi is more scarce, and is also highly carved, but is a fatter style.The examples I saw in the museum gave every appearance of being quite old. With motifs on handles, a crown and tumpal ( a triangular pattern) is normally associated with Pamekesan, the winged horse and a dragon with Suminep. What I meant by "---win in court---" was that I like to be pretty positive about something if I state that something is so. I may still be wrong, but if I say something is so, I want to be able to mount a case based on evidence and/or logical argument, that will prove my point or position. I dislike intensely, hypothesis presented as fact. Yes, I agree, it does help if everybody can use the same terminology in a discussion. One of the great advantages of Harsrinuksmo`s ensiklopedi is that it provides a very adequate vocabulary to allow keris discussion. In describing or discussing keris, I will often not use the terminology or names that I have learnt over the years, and will instead opt to use the terms that everybody understands.I think everybody generally understands Surakarta terms for wrongkos, so I usually use these terms, rather than try to use the correct regional term for type of wrongko. With the handle of a keris , I usually use the word "handle", simply because there are several words in general use in Jawa---ukiran, jejeran, gagang---and the name for a handle varies from place to place, so I use handle as the word everybody understands. Even in Bali, dealers who sell keris handles now refer to them as "endel". The stories might have to wait.

19th September 2006, 12:31 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yeah, those kala topengans seem to crop up all over the place, but although the motif is found in a number of places, the interpretation is always different. I have often seen pics of the Madura style attributed to Bali, which is understandable, because although it may be "made in Madura", the root is Bali.Just as with the bright yellow gayam style wrongko that I posted a pic of. With the mamas sandang walikats, I have seen them, and owned them, with Madura blades, and Madura handles, and as Madura is a part of East Jawa, I don`t have any problem at all with recognising that we can find the mamas SW in Madura, just as we can find it in East Jawa, Central Jawa, North Coast Jawa---in fact all over the place. However, going back maybe 35 years a very well known collector who lived in Malang, East Jawa, told me that this was a uniquely East Javanese form of wrongko. He may have been wrong, but he should have known what he was talking about , because of where he was based.I have never come across anybody in Central Jawa who wanted to give these wrongkos anything other than an East Jawa attribution. A big problem with something like this is that we just do not know where it originated, when, or for what reason. We can't associate it with a kraton---which would make things easy for us. All we have is this pretty scarce form of wrongko that is a more or less Javanese form, but in metal. On Madura you have two major centres:- Suminep, which has a Kraton, and Pamekesan which is a Kabupaten, or regency. The towns associated with these places are just like country towns. Suminep is like a little country town, but the area it governs is very broad, because it covers a lot of little islands. The countryside in Madura is dry, and poor. Wages there are depressed, there is virtually no industry, tobacco is grown, cattle are raised, and rice is almost in the luxury class.This is today I`m talking about. Take it back 100 years or so. I have a wee bit of difficulty in thinking of these mamas wrongkos as the product of a place that would have been essentially a poor, rural area. A short journey by ferry from Madura we have Surabaya. Big, populous, lots of industry---currently drowning in mud from an uncapped oil test drilling. Been a big city for a long time. These mamas SW's are never gimpy, cobbled together things---at least not in my experience---they show precision and skill in manufacture. The type of precision and skill one would expect to find in a city like Surabaya. On the other hand, the keris fittings from Madura demonstrate lavish detail in carving, the type of thing that artist/farmers can do when they are filling in time before or after work, or in between seasons. To my eye, the stern simplicity of the mamas SW just does not fit into the Madura artistic template. But it does look like the product of advanced metal working techniques. OK---here`s one of those hypotheses that I dislike so much:- mamas sandang walikat wrongkos were possibly initially manufactured in Surabaya, and exported to other parts of East Jawa, including Madura.

23rd September 2006, 04:45 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	That first modern example is quite nice. The Madurese knack for wood carving doesn't seem to have diminished much over the years. That second one is a puzzler. I can't say i have seen this style of sheath from either Jawa or Madura before. To my eye it is more like a cross between Bugis and Madurese forms. The pendok looks more Javanese to me though. Hopefully other will know better than i.

23rd September 2006, 09:34 PM	#8
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Yes, the Madurese has not lost their flair for wood carving and even though this is a decorative wrongko most likely made for the tourist trade, they tend to apply that unmistakable level of workmanship. As for the second one, it certainly look like Shahrial's wrongko is from the very same culture, one thing noticeable is both of them have a pendok in the Yogya/Central Javanese older style with the top edge arched. Shahrial, do you know the origin of the wrongko on your piece?