Madura Wrongko's of Various Types?

A. G. Maisey · 18th September 2006, 03:29 AM

Yep Rick:- it don`t got a belly.

Proportion is totally different.

In fact, David`s patrem example, and my Bali/Madura example I see as having only a slight similarity.

Your example is inarguably Jogja---longer, thinner, quite graceful. Humanise it. What do you see? Personally, I see a graceful woman in the prime of life.

Humanise my Bali/Madura and I see a middle aged housewife who likes to eat too much.

Humanise David`s and again I see a fairly substantial lady who is fond of food, and who could do with a bit of a bath and some make up.

To me, none of these wrongkos---yours, mine, David`s---look at all similar.

We need to take very careful note of very tiny differences.

Naga Sasra · 18th September 2006, 04:06 AM

Quote from Alan "We need to take very careful note of very tiny differences."

Well said Alan!

Thank you for the great response so far, wonderful pieces

Here are a few more:

David · 18th September 2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Humanise David`s and again I see a fairly substantial lady who is fond of food, and who could do with a bit of a bath and some make up.

Hey....wait a minute....a bath?!

That green tinge is bad color balancing BTW. Part of why i apologized for my picture quality.

The horn on the sandang walikat is green horn, but the color isn't quite that green. Hey, maybe they all need a bath.

Alan is right, of course. There are lots of small subtle differences which seperate these sheaths as specific variations on a form.
As for the name game, i tend to agree with Alan, though i guess it helps to at least have names for the general form types. In that sense i would guess that my first two examples are ladrang forms (formal), the bone horse head patrem is also a ladrang form, the ivory patrem is gayaman and the horn sheath is obviously sandang. The problem with this though is that i have no idea which of these catagories some of Alan's pieces would fall into. Would the sheath with the bird w/the floral design in the center be a formal dress sheath. What about the one with the horse that is basically the same shape. To me the lion sheaths that are known to be connnected with keris taken home by Dutch soldiers appear to be based on a gayaman form. Do these sheath always have the Dutch soldier connection or were some made for indigenous consumption?

A. G. Maisey · 18th September 2006, 05:44 AM

When I started talking abouts baths and make-up and women, I was talking figuratively. That patrem wrongko would benefit from being repolished, but if you did that you`d lose the patina so beloved of many collectors.

As to names, I've noticed that the more names I know, the more I tend towards using English names and giving English descriptions.

All the wrongkos shown in my pics were acquired in Indonesia, and all required some degree of restoration. Several were acquired in the Suminep area of Madura , including the two lions, the waterlily motif, and the bird.

This type may have been favoured by Dutch soldiers, but it would seem that some locals in Madura also had a liking for these highly ornamented pieces.

Erik, do you feel that perhaps there may be a stronger connection with East Jawa generally, than with Madura specifically, for that mamas sandang walikat?

VVV · 18th September 2006, 06:18 AM

"VVV--- I don't think this is a Solo style wrongko, it appears to me to be East Jawa; Madura is of course a part of East Jawa. The handle looks like an old North Coast one, not Madura."

Alan,

Thanks for correcting my description.
I find it hard to see the place of origin of some of the Putra Satu/Raksasa hilt variations.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 18th September 2006, 07:37 AM

Yeah, they can sometimes be pretty confusing.

There is a whole batch of handle types that seem to me to be just about equally able to be described as "Madura", or "North Coast". This one I don`t think is one of them , but all these intricately carved handles need to be looked at hard and with adequate references.

The wrongko seems to resemble a Solo gayam , but it is not. The very small differences that could only be pointed out if you had this and textbook Solo side by side give it away. Yes, certainly the overall shape is Solo, but this particular type is associated with East Jawa. I recently acquired a small, old collection of ---I think---8 of these East Jawa keris, and if you see a number of them together like that it is easy to recognise that they cannot be Solo.

18th September 2006, 04:06 AM	#2
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Quote from Alan "We need to take very careful note of very tiny differences." Well said Alan! Thank you for the great response so far, wonderful pieces Here are a few more: Attached Images

18th September 2006, 03:29 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yep Rick:- it don`t got a belly. Proportion is totally different. In fact, David`s patrem example, and my Bali/Madura example I see as having only a slight similarity. Your example is inarguably Jogja---longer, thinner, quite graceful. Humanise it. What do you see? Personally, I see a graceful woman in the prime of life. Humanise my Bali/Madura and I see a middle aged housewife who likes to eat too much. Humanise David`s and again I see a fairly substantial lady who is fond of food, and who could do with a bit of a bath and some make up. To me, none of these wrongkos---yours, mine, David`s---look at all similar. We need to take very careful note of very tiny differences.

18th September 2006, 05:44 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	When I started talking abouts baths and make-up and women, I was talking figuratively. That patrem wrongko would benefit from being repolished, but if you did that you`d lose the patina so beloved of many collectors. As to names, I've noticed that the more names I know, the more I tend towards using English names and giving English descriptions. All the wrongkos shown in my pics were acquired in Indonesia, and all required some degree of restoration. Several were acquired in the Suminep area of Madura , including the two lions, the waterlily motif, and the bird. This type may have been favoured by Dutch soldiers, but it would seem that some locals in Madura also had a liking for these highly ornamented pieces. Erik, do you feel that perhaps there may be a stronger connection with East Jawa generally, than with Madura specifically, for that mamas sandang walikat?

18th September 2006, 06:18 AM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	"VVV--- I don't think this is a Solo style wrongko, it appears to me to be East Jawa; Madura is of course a part of East Jawa. The handle looks like an old North Coast one, not Madura." Alan, Thanks for correcting my description. I find it hard to see the place of origin of some of the Putra Satu/Raksasa hilt variations. Michael

18th September 2006, 07:37 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yeah, they can sometimes be pretty confusing. There is a whole batch of handle types that seem to me to be just about equally able to be described as "Madura", or "North Coast". This one I don`t think is one of them , but all these intricately carved handles need to be looked at hard and with adequate references. The wrongko seems to resemble a Solo gayam , but it is not. The very small differences that could only be pointed out if you had this and textbook Solo side by side give it away. Yes, certainly the overall shape is Solo, but this particular type is associated with East Jawa. I recently acquired a small, old collection of ---I think---8 of these East Jawa keris, and if you see a number of them together like that it is easy to recognise that they cannot be Solo.