Fighting with keris

David · 13th September 2006, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I personally feel that Pak Bambang`s submission on the present day position of the keris in Javanese society belongs exactly where it is.

I think the original question was something like---"when did the keris cease to be a weapon"

Pak Bambang`s submission , I believe, is perfectly in context with the search for an answer to this question, for as he points out, he is presenting only one aspect of the nature of the keris, and that aspect relates to present day belief.

Sorry Alan, i did not mean to imply that Bambang's submission was inappropriate to this thread. I was merely encouraging him to start a new thread that might go more in depth on these present day beliefs. As you point out, there are a great many people in Jawa today who accept these relatively modern philosophies of the keris as fact. I personally think there is much to be found in this approach to keris as a spiritual path. I just think that it is a subject that goes beyond the context here and is deserving of a thread of it's own.

A. G. Maisey · 13th September 2006, 05:14 AM

Yes, I take your point, David.

Perhaps we could all benefit from an exploration of this aspect of the keris.

I do still feel that Pak Bambang`s contribution belongs where it is, for my already stated reason. After all, the keris has had different natures at different times in its history, and here we have a good, clear explanation of how some people regard the nature of the keris today.

This effectively says:- in Jawa, in the year 2006, and for some indeterminate time prior to that, a body of people do not accept that the nature of the keris is that of weapon.

By clearly establishing this attitude at this time and place, it frees us to move backwards in time to the point where the keris was regarded as a weapon.

I personally see Pak Bambang`s contribution as quite valuable in establishing these parameters of time and place.

However, perhaps somebody who holds similar beliefs to those put forward by Pak Bambang may feel inclined to open new discussion along these lines.

13th September 2006, 05:14 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yes, I take your point, David. Perhaps we could all benefit from an exploration of this aspect of the keris. I do still feel that Pak Bambang`s contribution belongs where it is, for my already stated reason. After all, the keris has had different natures at different times in its history, and here we have a good, clear explanation of how some people regard the nature of the keris today. This effectively says:- in Jawa, in the year 2006, and for some indeterminate time prior to that, a body of people do not accept that the nature of the keris is that of weapon. By clearly establishing this attitude at this time and place, it frees us to move backwards in time to the point where the keris was regarded as a weapon. I personally see Pak Bambang`s contribution as quite valuable in establishing these parameters of time and place. However, perhaps somebody who holds similar beliefs to those put forward by Pak Bambang may feel inclined to open new discussion along these lines.