Fighting with keris

[A. G. Maisey]

Warangan used to stain a keris blade does not render the blade poisonous.

The warangan combines with the ferric material of the blade , in much the same way as the chemicals used to achieve a cold blue effect in firearms , combine with the ferric material of firearms. If by some extremely unlikely chance there was a residue of arsenic on a keris blade, this residue would be so miniscule that it would not cause any injury through a poison effect.

For those with an interest in arsenic:-

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/arsenic/index.html

The word "cacam" puzzles me.

I do not know this word.

Nor do the seven Javanese people whom I have asked its meaning.

I cannot find the word in any Indonesian, Modern Javanese, or Old Javanese dictionary.

There is a word "cacampuri" in Kawi (ancient literary language) which seems to carry the meaning of mixing ingredients.

I would be very pleased to learn the meaning and origin of this word "cacam".

During colonial times there were many Javanese princes. I agree that it would be unlikely that at least some of these princes did not learn some Javanese martial art, however, in the written accounts of the education of those princes who rose to become rulers I can find no mention of these personages indulging in a study of silat, and quite frankly, I find it very difficult to reconcile the Kraton culture of the colonial era in Jawa with the study of silat by the heirs to the throne.
George Cameron Stone visited Jawa during the late colonial period, so in the matter of Javanese princes demonstrating systems of fence using the keris it is the probability of such systems being taught to Javanese royalty during this period which must be considered.I concede that the possibility does exist that George Cameron Stone was provided with a genuine exhibition of a system of fence specific to the keris, however, I cannot accept that this was a probability.

The word "kanuragan" is not a synonym for "silat".

"Kanuragan" in the sense of a protective discipline, means "invulnerable", and is a synonym of "kedhotan".

For those of you with an interest in understanding "kanuragan" you may care to visit this site:-

http://www.antarakita.net/reviews/r28.html

Gusti Djuminah was put under house arrest because of an interest in silat?
Isn`t it amazing how the truth of matters becomes buried in popular belief?
I had always thought Gusti Djuminah was exiled because he was a traitor.
Apparently many other people also think that this is what happened.

http://www.tasteofjogja.com/IDA/detailbud.asp?idbud=297

Ah well---truth will out.


Merpati Putih USA does make the claim that :-

"Merpati Putih Pencak Silat is the Indonesian Royal Family’s secret Martial Art and Inner Power System. MP was developed in the 1550’s and passed down through the generations very strictly from father to son & so on, only taught by the King to his Heirs. For over 400 years MP was very rarely if ever, seen by anyone outside the Royal Family. "
1550 is some considerable time prior to the Kartosuro era.

Regretably no references or documentation to support this claim are provided on the Merpati Putih USA website.

In spite of this long and regal history of silat in Jawa, there would seem to be no mention of it in literary sources, which to me, seems a little strange. I would have expected at least a passing mention in Centini, but I can find nothing.

I guess this proves beyond doubt that silat in Old Jawa was such a closely guarded secret, known of only by initiates, that virtually nobody else knew of its existence.

[VVV]

Or maybe it's like fishing stories?
I have heard several examples of fantastic stories of the history of different Silat styles that is only told in US, and in some cases has been exported to European Silat circles...

Michael

[Kiai Carita]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Warangan used to stain a keris blade does not render the blade poisonous.

The warangan combines with the ferric material of the blade , in much the same way as the chemicals used to achieve a cold blue effect in firearms , combine with the ferric material of firearms. If by some extremely unlikely chance there was a residue of arsenic on a keris blade, this residue would be so miniscule that it would not cause any injury through a poison effect.

For those with an interest in arsenic:-

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/arsenic/index.html

The word "cacam" puzzles me.

I do not know this word.

Nor do the seven Javanese people whom I have asked its meaning.

I cannot find the word in any Indonesian, Modern Javanese, or Old Javanese dictionary.

There is a word "cacampuri" in Kawi (ancient literary language) which seems to carry the meaning of mixing ingredients.

I would be very pleased to learn the meaning and origin of this word "cacam".

During colonial times there were many Javanese princes. I agree that it would be unlikely that at least some of these princes did not learn some Javanese martial art, however, in the written accounts of the education of those princes who rose to become rulers I can find no mention of these personages indulging in a study of silat, and quite frankly, I find it very difficult to reconcile the Kraton culture of the colonial era in Jawa with the study of silat by the heirs to the throne.
George Cameron Stone visited Jawa during the late colonial period, so in the matter of Javanese princes demonstrating systems of fence using the keris it is the probability of such systems being taught to Javanese royalty during this period which must be considered.I concede that the possibility does exist that George Cameron Stone was provided with a genuine exhibition of a system of fence specific to the keris, however, I cannot accept that this was a probability.

The word "kanuragan" is not a synonym for "silat".

"Kanuragan" in the sense of a protective discipline, means "invulnerable", and is a synonym of "kedhotan".

For those of you with an interest in understanding "kanuragan" you may care to visit this site:-

http://www.antarakita.net/reviews/r28.html

Gusti Djuminah was put under house arrest because of an interest in silat?
Isn`t it amazing how the truth of matters becomes buried in popular belief?
I had always thought Gusti Djuminah was exiled because he was a traitor.
Apparently many other people also think that this is what happened.

http://www.tasteofjogja.com/IDA/detailbud.asp?idbud=297

Ah well---truth will out.


Merpati Putih USA does make the claim that :-

"Merpati Putih Pencak Silat is the Indonesian Royal Family’s secret Martial Art and Inner Power System. MP was developed in the 1550’s and passed down through the generations very strictly from father to son & so on, only taught by the King to his Heirs. For over 400 years MP was very rarely if ever, seen by anyone outside the Royal Family. "
1550 is some considerable time prior to the Kartosuro era.

Regretably no references or documentation to support this claim are provided on the Merpati Putih USA website.

In spite of this long and regal history of silat in Jawa, there would seem to be no mention of it in literary sources, which to me, seems a little strange. I would have expected at least a passing mention in Centini, but I can find nothing.

I guess this proves beyond doubt that silat in Old Jawa was such a closely guarded secret, known of only by initiates, that virtually nobody else knew of its existence.

Nuwun sewu Pak Alan,

The word cacam is related to cemceman (oil and herbs for the hair) or tempe bacem. The cem part would indicate a marinade. It is mentioned in Pak Bambang's Ensiklopedi, and I have often seen people doing it.

Katosan and kanuragan is what most Jawanese would learn and pencak silat can and often is a part of katosan / kanuragan.

Gusti Juminah was a traitor to the Dutch colonialists but to the nationalist Mataramites he was the king of Yogya who never was. Studying kanuragan and silat was seen as a sign of treachery by the Dutch. This story I got from almarhum Pak Bagong himself, grandson of Gusti Juminah so of course it sees him positive.

If warangan doesn't kill, what makes people die in hours after being stabbed with a blade that has warangan on it? The wound becomes blue quickly and it begins to swell. Or are there other kinds of warangan? My friend died from a badik that had warangan on it.

As for Merpati Putih going back further that Kartasura, I would not be surprised. Merpati Putih as it is now, however comes down through Mataram, to the Jawa War 1825-30. The form we see nowadays was formulated after the Merdeka.

warm salaams to all,
Bram

[Pusaka]

You can still order poison blades today although I think the process is different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmJJLhy0o-M

[David]

Pusaka, is there supposed to be sound on that video. Mine ran silent.
Just to re-focus the discussion though, i would like to hear more about the validity of poisoning KERIS blades as this is specifically a keris forum and fighting with KERIS is the question at hand. There is not doubt that blades from different areas have received such treatment, though i am a bit dubious of the method in this video since i would imagine all that intense heat would destroy any poisons in the spider.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

Pusaka, is there supposed to be sound on that video. Mine ran silent.
Just to re-focus the discussion though, i would like to hear more about the validity of poisoning KERIS blades as this is specifically a keris forum and fighting with KERIS is the question at hand. There is not doubt that blades from different areas have received such treatment, though i am a bit dubious of the method in this video since i would imagine all that intense heat would destroy any poisons in the spider.

Yes there is sound with this video and yes I agree with you, I don’t think the poison venom would survive the intense heat and acid.
I was told that the blades were poisoned simply by rubbing the blade onto a poisonous tree frog, very simple and easy to do. I have no idea as to what frog was used but that is what I was told “frog poison”

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

You can still order poison blades today although I think the process is different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmJJLhy0o-M

Well, i did finally get the sound to work on this video. If these spiders are so deadly and kill within hours, can someone tell be why they are crawling all over these guys in the video? I also don't see how the poisons that these spiders supposedly carry can survive the fire and the acid that is used in this process. The whole thing sounds pretty sketchy to me.