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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Posts: 108
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John, you are absolutely correct, Bima is the second of the Pandawa brothers. He is shown as an armourer in the relief of Candi Sukuh among other places.
He has been iconized in many different ways with attribute in his right hand (sword or club) or no attribute at all, he has also been shown with or with out a hair bun and with or without long thump nails, sitting, squatting or standing. For more information I suggest “Keris-Griffe aus Museen und Privatsammlungen” by Martin Kerner. It is written mostly in German but with some English translations. Oh John, thanks for the “old boy” attribution ![]() |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 940
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Sorry guys, you are losing me here.
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#3 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,347
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Joining Nechesh in his confusion .
![]() This would be Bima ? |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
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Joining the confusion...Have a look at Cirebon hilts. This is raksasa kerdil.
![]() Another reference link. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...north_java.htm |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Land below the wind
Posts: 135
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Rick, is your example an affirmative Bima?
Erik and Alam Shah, thanks for puttings things on the table. Figurines as such are fascinating but references have been vague it seems. So as it is; Bima or Raksasa Kerdil? or what? |
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
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Mick's a Cirebon raksasa kerdil while Rick's example is a Bima.
I think, Rick is giving the pics for comparison. The difference is quite obvious. ![]() Below, link to a drawing of a Bima hilt. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...kiran_bali.htm Last edited by Alam Shah; 7th February 2005 at 02:44 AM. Reason: added link info |
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#7 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Posts: 108
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I guess the “old boy” attribution is in order, as it really seems that I need a new set of glasses, I was mistaken in what I saw as a club in his right hand was in fact his knee, I am truly sorry.
![]() This however, do not change the attribution to Bima with the time period previously stated. Let me start with the main characters in our discussion. PENDAWA: The name Pandawa (The Warriors) is derived from the story of a noble family who are the lead characters in the story of the Mahabharata. This story was written more than 2000 years ago in India, the story was brought to Indonesia where it became popular, particularly on the Islands of Bali and Jawa. The story is of the constant struggle between good and evil, and jealousy and power struggles between two sets of cousins the Pandawas representing the good forces, and the Kurawas the evil forces, who both want to rule their kingdom. The second of the Pandawa brothers is Bima. BIMA: Is known for his great strength and violence in battle where he wields a club or sword, he has round protruding eyes, a long nose and long thumbnails, he may or may not show his teeth, but will never have his mouth wide open. He also have or have not the other characteristics that I mentioned earlier. RAKSASA OR RAKSASI: (female) in Hindu mythology is a type of demon or goblin; they have the power to change their shape at will and can appear as animals, as monsters and the female as a beautiful women. They are most powerful in the evening during the dark period of the new moon, but they are dispelled by the rising sun, sort of like a combination of a werewolf and a vampire. Raksasas are demons with strongly colored complexions, bulging eyes and wide-opened mouths, which display rows of glittering teeth. As for Rick’s handle, it is an example of Bima, as he do not have his mouth wide open and he carry his club in his right hand. And have a long nose.. Nice example Rick. Regarding the attribution on Dominique’s web site, from Pictures from "UKIRAN - Essai de classification des poignées de kris de l'archipel indonésien" from Gaspard de Narval, I will respectfully disagree with some of his attributions, such as the Raksasa mentioned, look at Mick’s handle, I see a large thumb and a set of teeth, but definitely not the wide-open mouth that would make him a Raksasa. I guess this would mean that I also respectfully disagree with Bambangs attribution. Maybe I am in deep trouble here! |
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