Zulu Patina question? Looks very recent.

[Lew]

Bill

Your axe seems to have the right patina but the stick strikes me as being newer the checkering would be more worn if it was that old and used constantly by the owner. Attached is an old Songye axe that was encrusted with some real nasty dirt and grime it has a similar patina to your axe but this is after I cleaned and waxed it.

Lew

[Ian]

Bill:

That stick has been turned on a lathe (probably a lathe was used for the checkering too). Did Zulus have lathes to turn wood in such precise ways?

Ian.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Ian

Bill:

That stick has been turned on a lathe (probably a lathe was used for the checkering too). Did Zulus have lathes to turn wood in such precise ways?

Ian.

Ian,

You're not in England are you?

I can see marks between the handle and the checkering that looks as though it was turned on a lathe.

This is a mystery to me. On one hand everything points to this being made yesterday with modern tools. However the seller seems really solid and it would be even stranger for a faker to make something so obviously new-looking. A good faker would have wonderful wear patina.

Do like the African traders and give the piece to a kid with some steel wool and a can of Johnson's paste Wax. It would look a hundred years old in a few days.

[Lew]

Bill

The axe handle has age cracks and is consistant with other older knobkerries and axe handles that I have seen. Does the axe handle have a smokey smell to it like burnt wood? As far as lathes go I have a pic of a Sudanese wood worker using a lathe circa 1900.

Lew

[The Double D]

I have to agree with the perception the walking stick is fairly new. I to see lathe marks. I also think I see glue by the knob.

He paid three figures? Lets I exchanged Rand yesterday at 7.36 per dollar. So lets say R150, that's three figures, $20.38.

The attached picture is of a milkpail my wife got. It has that dark finish also. The darkness is supossed to come from the smoke in the rondaval.

Notice the surface finish of the milk pail. It's rough and marked and not polished as these two item are.

I think the axe has been refinished. Authenticity, will have come from some one more knowledgeable.

The Walking stick is nice but has some quality that says new made. The checkering should be worn or even damaged if old.

[Bill M]

The seller has agreed to a return and refund. But I dislike doing this, espcially if they could be authentic, he insists they are.

I would still like to know more if there are any other opinions?

I met the curator of African art at the Michael C Carlos Museum here in Atlanta some time ago and will email her a link to this thread.

She was born in south Africa. Maybe she will have an answer.

If I can get an appointment, I'll take these two pieces to her.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Ian,

You're not in England are you?

No Bill. I'm in Minnesota. Originally from Australia.

Ian.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Ian

No Bill. I'm in Minnesota. Originally from Australia.

Ian.

Either way, you talk funny.

[Ian]

The Honorable Mr Winston is having a lend of me.

[spiral]

Bill, The way I look at it if in the years to come if you will still have a nagging doubt & gut reaction about it evry time you handle it, send it back, & get something you like & belive in.

But If you realy like it, & others beliefs give you more confidence in it & overcome that your gut instinct to it, then keep it, & enjoy!

I dont know whether its real or not, but I know wood is easy to make look old.

So many of these also have old English Victorian Herb chopper heads as well. That always bothers me, but that may be my ignorance?

Perhaps there was a Zulu industry in turning these into axes? Or duplicating them on there forges? or perhaps the English copied them of the Zulu axes?

Ive also always noticed in life, the most succesful & richest conmen are increadibly plausible.

Also is there realy any high reputation dealer in the world who can swear hes never passed on a dubious item? Ive seen a few intresting pieces sold over the years.

Just a few of my random thoughts. No offence intended to anyone.


Spiral

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Bill

Your axe seems to have the right patina but the stick strikes me as being newer the checkering would be more worn if it was that old and used constantly by the owner.

Lew

How does the axe acquire the patina? Or the stick for that matter? There is little wear on the axe handle.

The stick looks very new. Do the Zulu just keep these in a cupboard while the wood turns black?

I don't understand. But I would like to

thanks for the reply Lew.