African (?) saber - help needed

Tim Simmons · 7th September 2006, 05:09 PM

I cannot see any reason why not to snap this up and proudly shout your triumph, as long as the price is good

. This may vary in detail from many published examples but these are nonstandard weapons and although said to be Abyssinian were in use in a huge region with Christians, Muslims, and Animists all contributing to the styles of weapons. If you do not buy it, you could give me the nod

.

mross · 7th September 2006, 05:29 PM

I agree with Tim. If the price is not high, buy it now and agonize later.

katana · 8th September 2006, 02:19 PM

I suppose....with a sword such as this...a good indication of it's 'authenticity' is to actually 'wield' it, ..... if it feels 'right'.....and the price is right ....then I would definately take the risk.

I agree that the crossguard looks 'cumbersome', could it be that originally it had a knucklebow, which has been cut down / removed, perhaps due to damage. It might explain why it looks slightly 'odd'.

Rick · 8th September 2006, 03:10 PM

Allow me to swim upstream here and suggest that this might be a Berber sword . The scabbard form fits the Berber pattern quite well . Of course if the script on the blade is amharic(sp?) then the matter is most likely settled.

My feeling is that this may not be Ethiopian.

Flavio · 8th September 2006, 03:51 PM

Hi all, here is a picture from Spring's book: a gurade and an europian saber with ethiopian scabbards.

roanoa · 9th September 2006, 02:22 AM

Hi guys. I'd like to see a close up of the scabbard. The tooling on the red leather is a sure tell. It looks Ethiopian to me. I agree that Berber scabbards also come in this shape, but the blades are usually much shorter. I also agree that the leather covered hilt has close ties with a Kaskara. That was my very first thought. It would be interesting to have the writing translated. Having said that, nothing surprises me when it comes to ABYSSINIAN swords. I have seen Kascaras with Ge'ez writing on the blades as well as the Lion of Judah. I have seen gurades with Arabian and even Moroccan hlts. And, of course, gurades with Arabic writing. Let's not forget the Arabian influence in Abyssinian areas like Harar. As it stands, without better pictures and more info, I would say it's a sword of Ethiopian/Sudanese origin and that it may have changed hands a few times and that each new owner has put a personal touch to it. Also, it seems to me there is leather braided cord attached to the scabbard and that it is made in the typical fashion of Southern Sudan. Any more thoughts? Cheers, RON

roanoa · 9th September 2006, 09:55 PM

One more thing that came to mind. The scabbard is, I suppose, made of raw hide covered with thin red leather. Ethiopian swords are worn on the right side and the stiching is therefore on the left side which is the side close to the body. If this is the case, then I would believe that at least the scabbard is Ethiopian.

8th September 2006, 03:51 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all, here is a picture from Spring's book: a gurade and an europian saber with ethiopian scabbards. Attached Images

7th September 2006, 05:09 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	I cannot see any reason why not to snap this up and proudly shout your triumph, as long as the price is good . This may vary in detail from many published examples but these are nonstandard weapons and although said to be Abyssinian were in use in a huge region with Christians, Muslims, and Animists all contributing to the styles of weapons. If you do not buy it, you could give me the nod .

7th September 2006, 05:29 PM	#2
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	I agree with Tim. If the price is not high, buy it now and agonize later.

8th September 2006, 02:19 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I suppose....with a sword such as this...a good indication of it's 'authenticity' is to actually 'wield' it, ..... if it feels 'right'.....and the price is right ....then I would definately take the risk. I agree that the crossguard looks 'cumbersome', could it be that originally it had a knucklebow, which has been cut down / removed, perhaps due to damage. It might explain why it looks slightly 'odd'.

8th September 2006, 03:10 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Allow me to swim upstream here and suggest that this might be a Berber sword . The scabbard form fits the Berber pattern quite well . Of course if the script on the blade is amharic(sp?) then the matter is most likely settled. My feeling is that this may not be Ethiopian.

9th September 2006, 02:22 AM	#6
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi guys. I'd like to see a close up of the scabbard. The tooling on the red leather is a sure tell. It looks Ethiopian to me. I agree that Berber scabbards also come in this shape, but the blades are usually much shorter. I also agree that the leather covered hilt has close ties with a Kaskara. That was my very first thought. It would be interesting to have the writing translated. Having said that, nothing surprises me when it comes to ABYSSINIAN swords. I have seen Kascaras with Ge'ez writing on the blades as well as the Lion of Judah. I have seen gurades with Arabian and even Moroccan hlts. And, of course, gurades with Arabic writing. Let's not forget the Arabian influence in Abyssinian areas like Harar. As it stands, without better pictures and more info, I would say it's a sword of Ethiopian/Sudanese origin and that it may have changed hands a few times and that each new owner has put a personal touch to it. Also, it seems to me there is leather braided cord attached to the scabbard and that it is made in the typical fashion of Southern Sudan. Any more thoughts? Cheers, RON

9th September 2006, 09:55 PM	#7
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	One more thing that came to mind. The scabbard is, I suppose, made of raw hide covered with thin red leather. Ethiopian swords are worn on the right side and the stiching is therefore on the left side which is the side close to the body. If this is the case, then I would believe that at least the scabbard is Ethiopian.