Kindjal

ausjulius · 13th August 2006, 09:52 AM

Hi , rivkin ,
the kindjal and the shashka are both modern weaponry,
they have not exisited long , and originaly evolved at the same time of the intorduction of firearms,,
the shashka is only 300 years old at the most.. and the kindjal not more,,
in dagestan before the introduction of the palash and shamshir type of swords the dagestan folds used a short one handed sword,, 10th 11th ceutuaries and such , the north caucascians living more on the open steppe always had some nomad type swords, such as the chechens,, and the circassians, sabers of various forms ,, depending on who was invading at the time ,
i think eairler in history they used the short one handed swords as the dagestani groups,,

the shashka evouled in the area around the aydge as they prefered to be very acrobatic with the swords and to perform many tricks to display there horse riding skills,, so the basicly chopped the guards off the swords,, ,, the handle form comes ot for the sabers of the time , but form a kard knife,,
at this time the cossaks were still using a tatar style sword,, suted for fighting against armoued opponents,,, ,, although mostly the western cossaks had discarded amour by this time , there costumes were still more mongolian than caucascian,, but as military contact increased with the caucascians they assumed the circassian costume and weaponry,, you see older pictures of the cossaks and they would appear to be men dressed and armed almost as mongols,, at this time there main opponent was either monols , tatars or the nogai/kipchak people who the were driving out form the southern steppe or assimilating into there hostes... i think that the same happened wiht the causasus,, also the cassaks were many times andits , so wat they could steal they didnt buy and if they won a battel and had a lot of new clothes and swords,, well then theyed use them ,
lezginka is the dance of the lezgins :P... no i thin with lezginka there is no way to know who it belongs to,, its been here for 1000snds of yers, like throat singing,, the mongols and turkic folks all do it but who invented it ... well its been around to long

with the kindjal,, ok , again it is a new weapon , and it is associated with the acrobatic riding or the north caucascians , aspecialy yhte flat form and the firm insertion into te belt , as oppose to a hanger of sorts,, the handle shape allows a high degree of dexterity when performing hand tricks with the weapon , and it can be spun through the fingers and twirled and suc , much more than could be done with a card or a european dagger or another form of short sword,, ...
the later kindjals that the cossaks encountered dasicly had evoulved as trick items and orniments havinf a handle that could fit between the fingers and be twirled and skipped on the fingers and such , aswel as being comfortable when trick riding,, , it could also be used to stabb wiiht with a good leathel effect if needed , ..
i thin the eairlier kindjals came form northen iran,,
just my opinion , either that or the north of the caucasus,,, if they cam form the north of the caucasus then they were very unpopular for a very ong time,, one idea is they came from some sort of leg sword that was used by the sythians and alans and mongola and such ushaly stuck in the arrow quiver or tied on the leg,, mostly for stabbing,,
the iran idea it it was form the roman swords :P or later fomrs like it form the arabs,, .. neither has a great deal of proof behind it,, mainly due to the fact that nobody have ever looked in great detial into it............

DaveA · 18th January 2015, 05:19 PM

Here is a previous thread with some wonderful pictures illustrating the kinjal and shashka.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=1061#poststop

ariel · 19th January 2015, 01:28 AM

Mech is a slavic word for a straight double-edged sword.
There is an equivalent to the turkish "mech" ,i.e. narrow-bladed, edge-less and very long blade suitable only for stabbing weapon, i.e. Eastern European sword called Konchar ( various writing). Amusingly, this word came from turkic languages ( handzhar is a close relative).

Thus, both the Ottomans and the Slavs used the same weapon, but each called it in the opposite language: Turks took the Slavc term, and the Slavs Turkish.
Fair swap :-)

18th January 2015, 05:19 PM	#2
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 415	Photo tribute to Caucasus Here is a previous thread with some wonderful pictures illustrating the kinjal and shashka. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=1061#poststop

13th August 2006, 09:52 AM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 438	Hi , rivkin , the kindjal and the shashka are both modern weaponry, they have not exisited long , and originaly evolved at the same time of the intorduction of firearms,, the shashka is only 300 years old at the most.. and the kindjal not more,, in dagestan before the introduction of the palash and shamshir type of swords the dagestan folds used a short one handed sword,, 10th 11th ceutuaries and such , the north caucascians living more on the open steppe always had some nomad type swords, such as the chechens,, and the circassians, sabers of various forms ,, depending on who was invading at the time , i think eairler in history they used the short one handed swords as the dagestani groups,, the shashka evouled in the area around the aydge as they prefered to be very acrobatic with the swords and to perform many tricks to display there horse riding skills,, so the basicly chopped the guards off the swords,, ,, the handle form comes ot for the sabers of the time , but form a kard knife,, at this time the cossaks were still using a tatar style sword,, suted for fighting against armoued opponents,,, ,, although mostly the western cossaks had discarded amour by this time , there costumes were still more mongolian than caucascian,, but as military contact increased with the caucascians they assumed the circassian costume and weaponry,, you see older pictures of the cossaks and they would appear to be men dressed and armed almost as mongols,, at this time there main opponent was either monols , tatars or the nogai/kipchak people who the were driving out form the southern steppe or assimilating into there hostes... i think that the same happened wiht the causasus,, also the cassaks were many times andits , so wat they could steal they didnt buy and if they won a battel and had a lot of new clothes and swords,, well then theyed use them , lezginka is the dance of the lezgins :P... no i thin with lezginka there is no way to know who it belongs to,, its been here for 1000snds of yers, like throat singing,, the mongols and turkic folks all do it but who invented it ... well its been around to long with the kindjal,, ok , again it is a new weapon , and it is associated with the acrobatic riding or the north caucascians , aspecialy yhte flat form and the firm insertion into te belt , as oppose to a hanger of sorts,, the handle shape allows a high degree of dexterity when performing hand tricks with the weapon , and it can be spun through the fingers and twirled and suc , much more than could be done with a card or a european dagger or another form of short sword,, ... the later kindjals that the cossaks encountered dasicly had evoulved as trick items and orniments havinf a handle that could fit between the fingers and be twirled and skipped on the fingers and such , aswel as being comfortable when trick riding,, , it could also be used to stabb wiiht with a good leathel effect if needed , .. i thin the eairlier kindjals came form northen iran,, just my opinion , either that or the north of the caucasus,,, if they cam form the north of the caucasus then they were very unpopular for a very ong time,, one idea is they came from some sort of leg sword that was used by the sythians and alans and mongola and such ushaly stuck in the arrow quiver or tied on the leg,, mostly for stabbing,, the iran idea it it was form the roman swords :P or later fomrs like it form the arabs,, .. neither has a great deal of proof behind it,, mainly due to the fact that nobody have ever looked in great detial into it............

19th January 2015, 01:28 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Mech is a slavic word for a straight double-edged sword. There is an equivalent to the turkish "mech" ,i.e. narrow-bladed, edge-less and very long blade suitable only for stabbing weapon, i.e. Eastern European sword called Konchar ( various writing). Amusingly, this word came from turkic languages ( handzhar is a close relative). Thus, both the Ottomans and the Slavs used the same weapon, but each called it in the opposite language: Turks took the Slavc term, and the Slavs Turkish. Fair swap :-)