Tulwar....anyone recognise these marks?

Jens Nordlunde · 9th August 2006, 03:54 PM

Most of the Indian weapons in the western World, were either brought back by soldiers whose service had ended, or bought by dealers in very big lots, when the armouries were broken up. The soldiers must have known where they took the weapons, but the information is long forgotten or missing, and the dealers were seldom interested in markings, as their interest was to get the weapons to the western World and sold as soon as possible. The lack of interest in the markings then, is what now give the collectors and museums a lot of problems. We see the marks, but we don’t know what they mean – at least I don’t.

From the way the markings are placed, the katar at the beginning of the blade, sometimes almost under the langet, and the trisula well down the blade in the middle, could mean that they don’t have anything to do with each other, but this is pure guessing.

Has anyone ever seen one of these markings alone, or are they always seen together on blades?

katana · 9th August 2006, 04:11 PM

Jens the marks are deeply stamped and must have been made during the forging of the blade. 'Cold' stamping would have made only a light impression?

Jens Nordlunde · 9th August 2006, 05:43 PM

Hi Katana,

Should I try to guess, I would say that the katar could be an armoury mark. No one has mentioned anything about any numbers. Not that it matters much, as some armouries had marks, others did not, some numbered their weapons, and others did not. If the katar is a smiths mark, which is possible although I don’t think so, this man must have been rather busy, as I can understand there are quite a number of blades out there, marked with a katar. If the katar mark is an armoury mark, they would most likely have made it in a visible place, but not necessarily in a place where you could see it better than other possible marks. The trisula, I think, is something different; this could be a religious, or other kind of a mark, used inside an area or region where the katar was also used as a mark.

This is why I am interested in knowing, if the two marks always are seen together on blades.

Jens

PS You can sometimes find blades with more than one armoury mark.

RSWORD · 9th August 2006, 08:50 PM

Here is a picture of the trisula marking on one of my blades and it is the only marking.(no katar marking). This marking, however, is made as a seperate hot forged inlay as opposed to a stamping.

katana · 9th August 2006, 09:09 PM

RS ...thats a very nice blade...

Jens Nordlunde · 9th August 2006, 10:46 PM

Very nice picture, and it is interesting, that only the trisula is shown. I think I will have to have a look around.

Thank you very much Rick - it is a very nice blade

.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th August 2007, 02:54 PM

In Hindu Arms and Ritual, Robert Elgood writes on page 107. “The Marathas marked the trident on their swords and cannons in honour of Durga and surround the latter with lamps and an impromptu altar.” Unfortunately I could not find anything about the katar stamp – yet.

9th August 2006, 08:50 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Here is a picture of the trisula marking on one of my blades and it is the only marking.(no katar marking). This marking, however, is made as a seperate hot forged inlay as opposed to a stamping. Attached Images

9th August 2006, 10:46 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Very nice picture, and it is interesting, that only the trisula is shown. I think I will have to have a look around. Thank you very much Rick - it is a very nice blade.

9th August 2006, 03:54 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Most of the Indian weapons in the western World, were either brought back by soldiers whose service had ended, or bought by dealers in very big lots, when the armouries were broken up. The soldiers must have known where they took the weapons, but the information is long forgotten or missing, and the dealers were seldom interested in markings, as their interest was to get the weapons to the western World and sold as soon as possible. The lack of interest in the markings then, is what now give the collectors and museums a lot of problems. We see the marks, but we don’t know what they mean – at least I don’t. From the way the markings are placed, the katar at the beginning of the blade, sometimes almost under the langet, and the trisula well down the blade in the middle, could mean that they don’t have anything to do with each other, but this is pure guessing. Has anyone ever seen one of these markings alone, or are they always seen together on blades?

9th August 2006, 04:11 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Jens the marks are deeply stamped and must have been made during the forging of the blade. 'Cold' stamping would have made only a light impression?

9th August 2006, 05:43 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Katana, Should I try to guess, I would say that the katar could be an armoury mark. No one has mentioned anything about any numbers. Not that it matters much, as some armouries had marks, others did not, some numbered their weapons, and others did not. If the katar is a smiths mark, which is possible although I don’t think so, this man must have been rather busy, as I can understand there are quite a number of blades out there, marked with a katar. If the katar mark is an armoury mark, they would most likely have made it in a visible place, but not necessarily in a place where you could see it better than other possible marks. The trisula, I think, is something different; this could be a religious, or other kind of a mark, used inside an area or region where the katar was also used as a mark. This is why I am interested in knowing, if the two marks always are seen together on blades. Jens PS You can sometimes find blades with more than one armoury mark.

9th August 2006, 09:09 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	RS ...thats a very nice blade...

11th August 2007, 02:54 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	In Hindu Arms and Ritual, Robert Elgood writes on page 107. “The Marathas marked the trident on their swords and cannons in honour of Durga and surround the latter with lamps and an impromptu altar.” Unfortunately I could not find anything about the katar stamp – yet.