A Portugese Question

fernando · 2nd August 2006, 08:18 PM

I would say its the other way round, as i learned long time ago.The four stringed Ukelele is practically like the Cavaquinho, or Braguinha ( from Braga, where is still considerably produced ). I would say that both Uke and Kroncong had the same origin, one more modified by nationals than the other, as you observed. However and considering you are within these things, i tell you i wonder how this instrument was the base for actual fado, considering nowadays the backing instrument is a twelve stringed unique shaped guitar, the cavaquinho having a more generic folk music, and also performing in popular "orchestras" of fifty or more of this (only) instrument. I know fado had different stages and styles, like a just ended version of crying out loud "real dramatic" stories in the streets, selling the story printed panphlet, and expecting people's tips. Either the ( male ) musician or ( female ) singer were often blind people.
But i am diverting ... i better stop now.
regards
fernando

ariel · 2nd August 2006, 09:47 PM

Interesting topic: linguistic of weapons. From what I could understand, there is unlikely to be a direct connection between the Portugese Sangue and Sangkur: just phonetic resemblance.
Many words in many languages have uncanny phonetic resemblance to other, unrelated, words in other languages. It is inevitable, because there are only so many sounds we can construct.
Some of them become a butt of jokes, especially when the translation is "risky". I know several of those (some with unfortunate personal experience) and could quote them, but the good taste of some Forumites is likely to be offended

Then there are homophones: words that are spelled differently and have different meaning , but may have similar (or, more precisely, confusing for the non-native speakers) pronounciation. even more dangerous....

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2006, 11:17 PM

The uke is a Hawaiian instrument, and ---as I understand it---was introduced to Hawaii by Portugese settlers in the last quarter of the 19th century.

I think we can safely say that both the uke and the cuk came from the same Portugese instrument, only at widely separated points in time.

Yes, I agree that the cavaquinho could well have been the original instrument used in fado.

As for similar sounding words, yes, this can cause a lot of amusement. Even the cuk that they use in kroncong is the same sound as the Australian colloquial for a chicken:- chook.

2nd August 2006, 08:18 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	the cavaquinho is like a four stringed uke I would say its the other way round, as i learned long time ago.The four stringed Ukelele is practically like the Cavaquinho, or Braguinha ( from Braga, where is still considerably produced ). I would say that both Uke and Kroncong had the same origin, one more modified by nationals than the other, as you observed. However and considering you are within these things, i tell you i wonder how this instrument was the base for actual fado, considering nowadays the backing instrument is a twelve stringed unique shaped guitar, the cavaquinho having a more generic folk music, and also performing in popular "orchestras" of fifty or more of this (only) instrument. I know fado had different stages and styles, like a just ended version of crying out loud "real dramatic" stories in the streets, selling the story printed panphlet, and expecting people's tips. Either the ( male ) musician or ( female ) singer were often blind people. But i am diverting ... i better stop now. regards fernando

2nd August 2006, 09:47 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Interesting topic: linguistic of weapons. From what I could understand, there is unlikely to be a direct connection between the Portugese Sangue and Sangkur: just phonetic resemblance. Many words in many languages have uncanny phonetic resemblance to other, unrelated, words in other languages. It is inevitable, because there are only so many sounds we can construct. Some of them become a butt of jokes, especially when the translation is "risky". I know several of those (some with unfortunate personal experience) and could quote them, but the good taste of some Forumites is likely to be offended Then there are homophones: words that are spelled differently and have different meaning , but may have similar (or, more precisely, confusing for the non-native speakers) pronounciation. even more dangerous....

2nd August 2006, 11:17 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	The uke is a Hawaiian instrument, and ---as I understand it---was introduced to Hawaii by Portugese settlers in the last quarter of the 19th century. I think we can safely say that both the uke and the cuk came from the same Portugese instrument, only at widely separated points in time. Yes, I agree that the cavaquinho could well have been the original instrument used in fado. As for similar sounding words, yes, this can cause a lot of amusement. Even the cuk that they use in kroncong is the same sound as the Australian colloquial for a chicken:- chook.