Filippine kris moro?

Willie W. · 1st August 2006, 05:52 PM

Thank you for the welcome, Andrew. I've been lurking here for quite sometimes but never posted. It seems that for what little knowledge about Moro sundangs were shared, the values of these would rise. There's good and bad to this; good, in that the sellers and dealers are making profit, and bad, because it creates an elite group to collect these heirlooms. With that, most collections are tucked away, giving future collectors no chance of acquiring it, or future scholars to study these magnificent weapons. Though forum such as these exist to educate the public, most informations that are given lately about these swords, are erroneous in nature, almost laughable at times (e.g., the silver hilted barung awhile back...).

I will share what I know about this twisted core, since I have seen this type appearing quite a lot recently, and at the least it would be something that future collectors can go by. But most of all, I have the blessings of my grandfather to share this knowledge. Twisted cores such as the one shown were reserved for the panglimas, and not datus. Datus were dime a dozen, but to be a panglima is something else.

VVV · 1st August 2006, 06:20 PM

Thanks for the info Willie,

Do you mind sharing your knowledge on the unusual silver hilted Barong (posted a while ago) also?

Michael

Battara · 1st August 2006, 10:31 PM

Ok, Willie, I will show my ignorance here. What is a panglima exactly and what is the difference? (yes - lots of datus in the region).

BSMStar · 2nd August 2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Ok, Willie, I will show my ignorance here. What is a panglima exactly and what is the difference? (yes - lots of datus in the region).

Please correct me if I am wrong... I believe the panglimas were the Datu's lieutenants or regional leaders/warriors under the Datu's command.

Ian · 3rd August 2006, 12:03 PM

I think Panglima is a Malay word and implies much more than a Datu's lieutenant -- more in the nature of a general with command over a substantial number of warriors. Sometimes the terms Datu and Panglima are applied to the same person. That would suggest service to a sultan or other higher dignitary than a datu. I look forward to reading Willie's explanation of the term.

Ian.

Edit: A Malay term Panglima Tertinggi refers to "Commander in Chief"

BSMStar · 3rd August 2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Sometimes the terms Datu and Panglima are applied to the same person. That would suggest service to a sultan or other higher dignitary than a datu.

I have been privately contacted and "corrected" too.

In order for me to sort this out, in whose employment was the Panglima? By the Datu or the Sultan?

That would answer a lot for me.

VVV · 3rd August 2006, 01:47 PM

Did a quick Google and found out that Panglima is a district chief/leader and Datu is a tribal leader. The Sulu Sultanate was divided into five larger districts, each governed by a Panglima. So I assume that the order is Sultan - Panglima - Datu?
I noticed that there were five districts (five=lima), is this a coincidence?

In Swish of the Kris Panglima is translated as judge.

Michael

From http://www.answers.com/topic/tausug-people

"...In 1390, Raja Baguinda landed at Buansa and extended the missionary work of Makdum. The Muslim Arabian scholar Abu Bakr arrived in 1450, married Baguinda's daughter, and after Baguinda's death, became sultan, thereby introducing the sultanate as a political system. Political districts were created in Parang, Pansul, Lati, Gitung, and Luuk, each headed by a panglima or district leader."

mross · 3rd August 2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie W.

I will share what I know about this twisted core, since I have seen this type appearing quite a lot recently, and at the least it would be something that future collectors can go by. But most of all, I have the blessings of my grandfather to share this knowledge. Twisted cores such as the one shown were reserved for the panglimas, and not datus. Datus were dime a dozen, but to be a panglima is something else.

Perhaps I am missing something here but I thought the discussion was on inlays not twisted cores?

Bill M · 3rd August 2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Perhaps I am missing something here but I thought the discussion was on inlays not twisted cores?

My wife says I have a twisted core. But she married me anyway.

Rick · 3rd August 2006, 10:14 PM

Bill, you're in rare form today .

I believe Willie was referring to the kris in another thread .

3rd August 2006, 12:03 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	I think Panglima is a Malay word and implies much more than a Datu's lieutenant -- more in the nature of a general with command over a substantial number of warriors. Sometimes the terms Datu and Panglima are applied to the same person. That would suggest service to a sultan or other higher dignitary than a datu. I look forward to reading Willie's explanation of the term. Ian. Edit: A Malay term Panglima Tertinggi refers to "Commander in Chief" Last edited by Ian; 3rd August 2006 at 12:24 PM.

3rd August 2006, 01:47 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Did a quick Google and found out that Panglima is a district chief/leader and Datu is a tribal leader. The Sulu Sultanate was divided into five larger districts, each governed by a Panglima. So I assume that the order is Sultan - Panglima - Datu? I noticed that there were five districts (five=lima), is this a coincidence? In Swish of the Kris Panglima is translated as judge. Michael From http://www.answers.com/topic/tausug-people "...In 1390, Raja Baguinda landed at Buansa and extended the missionary work of Makdum. The Muslim Arabian scholar Abu Bakr arrived in 1450, married Baguinda's daughter, and after Baguinda's death, became sultan, thereby introducing the sultanate as a political system. Political districts were created in Parang, Pansul, Lati, Gitung, and Luuk, each headed by a panglima or district leader." Last edited by VVV; 3rd August 2006 at 03:40 PM. Reason: additional info and source

1st August 2006, 05:52 PM	#1
Willie W. Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 8	Thank you for the welcome, Andrew. I've been lurking here for quite sometimes but never posted. It seems that for what little knowledge about Moro sundangs were shared, the values of these would rise. There's good and bad to this; good, in that the sellers and dealers are making profit, and bad, because it creates an elite group to collect these heirlooms. With that, most collections are tucked away, giving future collectors no chance of acquiring it, or future scholars to study these magnificent weapons. Though forum such as these exist to educate the public, most informations that are given lately about these swords, are erroneous in nature, almost laughable at times (e.g., the silver hilted barung awhile back...). I will share what I know about this twisted core, since I have seen this type appearing quite a lot recently, and at the least it would be something that future collectors can go by. But most of all, I have the blessings of my grandfather to share this knowledge. Twisted cores such as the one shown were reserved for the panglimas, and not datus. Datus were dime a dozen, but to be a panglima is something else.

1st August 2006, 06:20 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for the info Willie, Do you mind sharing your knowledge on the unusual silver hilted Barong (posted a while ago) also? Michael

1st August 2006, 10:31 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Ok, Willie, I will show my ignorance here. What is a panglima exactly and what is the difference? (yes - lots of datus in the region).

3rd August 2006, 10:14 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Bill, you're in rare form today . I believe Willie was referring to the kris in another thread .