Unknown South East Asian knife for comment

[Sajen]

Another knife, again a different blade style but with a similar handle.

[Rafngard]

Hello All,

If wikipedia is correct, Phatthalung, Trang, Songkhla all have significant historic Malay populations.
I could totally believe that these knives come from the Malay cultural sphere, which of course extends to Sumatra.

Have fun,
Leif

[A. G. Maisey]

Hilt origin I have no issue with, however, is anybody prepared to accept that the blade has a similar geographic origin to that of the hilt?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Hilt origin I have no issue with, however, is anybody prepared to accept that the blade has a similar geographic origin to that of the hilt?

Hello Alan,

Like Leif stated, when my informant is correct is the origin stated from him a mostly from Malay people inhabited region so it's no great surprise that there can be found blades with pamor and kembang kacang.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you Detlef.

I know nothing about this type of knife, but in this thread I have now seen several knives with similar hilts and with very different blades. Do all of these variant knives have the same name? Are they all from the same place? Do they all have the same ethnic background?

I believe that you would have noticed that I do not like guessing about origins, I like evidence, not unfounded opinions, so I am not proposing any geographic point of origin for the blade with the double crown.

Any knife begins with the blade.

Any geographic location produces similar knife blades to carry out similar functions.

I can see no similarity at all between these three knife blades.

The knife that began the discussion has a blade with a quite distinctive baluster that is usually associated with a location that is very far from the location where this particular type of hilt supposedly originates.

Do we have any evidence of a knife blade similar to the double crown blade coming from any specific geographic location?

Old blades & old hilts & old scabbards have been combined into usable weapons & tools for as long as tools & weapons have been made, sometimes by users, sometimes by dealers, sometimes by collectors. Not every item that comes into our hands needs to be believed to be as it was originally made, many of these utilitarian items are made by combining unrelated parts simply to make a tool or weapon as needed.

Then again we have the undeniable truth that blade making centres have been shipping blades across S.E. Asia & beyond for hundreds of years --- & still are.

If we believe that its identification as having a Malay ethnic origin is sufficient, well, I guess that is some sort of opinion, but as far as I can see, that opinion can only apply to the hilt, not to the entire knife

Sometimes our questions might not be able to be given supportable answers.

[David]

I am afraid i have the same questions as Alan, Detlef. Neither of the two other knives with a similar hilt resemble this blade. I am afraid i would need to see some further evidence of a Thai knife with provenance that displays these same features before i would be able to accept it as originating in that area. I still think the blade has more in common with Aceh blades than anywhere else.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

I am afraid i have the same questions as Alan, Detlef. Neither of the two other knives with a similar hilt resemble this blade. I am afraid i would need to see some further evidence of a Thai knife with provenance that displays these same features before i would be able to accept it as originating in that area. I still think the blade has more in common with Aceh blades than anywhere else.

Hello David,

You don't need to be afraid, read my answer to Alan. But like said, no one was able to state a clear evidence of a Sumatran (Aceh) origin, I think we all have never seen a similar knife with clear origin of Sumatra, so all statements (which I appreciate) given here are as good as the one from the Thai collector, I just don't want to rule out a Southern Thai origin. Maybe next time or at one date in future someone will be able to give a proofed origin of the knife in question.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Hello Alan,

Like yourself I know next to nothing about the knife in question, so I started this thread to let it discussed here and to get more informations, Peter, David and Séverin give their guesses and Peter was going by the crown bolster and I guess that the other both also going by the laminated blade, the kembang kacang and the double star bolster and stated that a possible origin could be Sumatra. And frankly said I displayed it with my other North Sumatran blades at my wall after these comments.
I never before have seen a similar handle style, short of this the knife in the picture in #13 pop up with a few other blades by a German auction, I won this auction but the small auction house wanted for shipping inside Germany 110,- Euro (!!) I wasn't willing to pay so I never paid the bill and I never got the lot. Finally I received yesterday from a good friend of mine an email with the knife shown in #12. This knife was sold by a Thai collector on a local collectors market. My friend contacted this Thai man and asked about my knife, the answer I have posted, nothing more. I am far away from accepting the given origin but I have given his answer for discussion as another possible origin. This Thai man stated also: "the blade comes in various shapes" and in laminated steel and as well in non-laminated steel.
I never stated based on a single opinion or statement that the knife in question is indeed a Southern Thai knife but until I have a clear proof of the exact origin I take his statement as a possible origin, his statement has the same worth as the other opinions, a clear proof of the origin was no one able to give until now.

Regards,
Detlef