Two Takouba Questions

RobT · 20th December 2025, 07:32 PM

Hi All,

I remember seeing blade stamps like these (see photos 2 & 3) but I can’t remember if I saw them on khodmi or takouba. As shown, my blade is stamped on both sides but the stamp location is staggered with the stamps on one side being closer to the guard than on the other. Can anyone tell me which weapon these type of stamps appear on (or are they found on both)?
When I first saw this sword, I wasn’t going to buy it because I thought that some ignorant sod had drilled display hanging holes in the blade but then I asked myself, “why three holes?”. If the sword were to be hung vertically, one hole would be enough and two would be enough for horizontal display. I concluded that the holes were probably drilled either by the maker or the owner. My second question is whether or not the holes were likely to have been filled with copper or brass.
The blade on my sword measures about 29.25” (74.295cm). Although the fuller is offset, the blade is double edged. The leather on the cross guard has a stamped border. There is a short half cylinder of leather with an incised design, on the hilt just behind the guard. The large oval pommel is iron and measures 2.5 x 3 inches (6.35 x 7.62 cm). The base of the pyramid atop the pommel is also iron and has an incised design. The remaining four parts of the pyramid are made of alternating layers of incised brass and copper. The tang is peened over a brass button capping the pyramid. The ornate pommel clearly shows that this blade was meant to be a cut above average (pun shamelessly intended).
There is a pierced and incised brass (four corners of the desert” design just below the sheath throat. Unfortunately, most of the sheath suspension is missing. Most unfortunately, the chape is missing also.

Sincerely,
RobT

Pertinax · 20th December 2025, 10:02 PM

Congratulations, Rob, a very interesting and beautiful sword.
We discussed these hallmarks:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30639

JOURNAL OF THE SOCIETY OF HISTORICAL WEAPONS
HISTORICAL WEAPONS No. 1 2015
EDUARD von LENZ
A FEW WORDS ABOUT ANCIENT COLD WEAPONS
Page 150-151
IV. Italian Masters. "Gurda".
The Italian masters, in contrast to the Solingen and German masters in general, comparatively rarely branded their blades, and if they did, they usually used small marks of a simple form (Fig. 11), which, as far as is known, belonged to the workshops of the cities of Genoa, Brescia, Milan and Belluno and did not constitute the personal property of certain masters.

TVV · 20th December 2025, 10:38 PM

Yes these are Italian marks. Here is an Italian blade on a takouba with a similar mark:

Name: Takouba 04d.jpg
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And they were also copied locally, like this takouba with a native blade shows:

Name: Takouba 07d.jpg
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Jim McDougall · Yesterday, 03:26 AM

As noted, these curious markings from fig.11 (previous) are those referred to in Mann(1962) as 'twig' marks, and seem to have had wide variation, not only in the branched character but in their occurrence in varied number, configurations and associated other marks (such as 'sickles' etc.)

This blade is quite old, and I am tempted to consider it to be European, with the block forte. The twig marks, though usually on the blade center seem to be authentic, probably Italian, however they were also spuriously used in Germany.

The holes in linear fashion are unusual and three dots in triangular fashion are often commonly seen on other ethnographic blades, such as in India where they are thought to represent the 'Trimurti'.
However it seems possible that these holes were intended to be filled with gold metal, which were a talismanic feature in Islamic swords, from one to several dots ("Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths, Unsal Yucel, 2001).

Really interesting takouba with this old blade, and remounted as usual...these blades circulated for generations if not centuries in these tribal spheres.

RobT · Yesterday, 04:58 PM

Thanks Pertinax, TVV, and Jim McDougall,

I would love it if the blade had been stamped by an Italian maker but even if stamped by an African maker as a talisman/homage/selling point, it’s good to know the origin of the stamp.
If I can find a suitably sized brass rod, I will try to fill the holes.

Sincerely,
RobT

20th December 2025, 07:32 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 599	Two Takouba Questions Hi All, I remember seeing blade stamps like these (see photos 2 & 3) but I can’t remember if I saw them on khodmi or takouba. As shown, my blade is stamped on both sides but the stamp location is staggered with the stamps on one side being closer to the guard than on the other. Can anyone tell me which weapon these type of stamps appear on (or are they found on both)? When I first saw this sword, I wasn’t going to buy it because I thought that some ignorant sod had drilled display hanging holes in the blade but then I asked myself, “why three holes?”. If the sword were to be hung vertically, one hole would be enough and two would be enough for horizontal display. I concluded that the holes were probably drilled either by the maker or the owner. My second question is whether or not the holes were likely to have been filled with copper or brass. The blade on my sword measures about 29.25” (74.295cm). Although the fuller is offset, the blade is double edged. The leather on the cross guard has a stamped border. There is a short half cylinder of leather with an incised design, on the hilt just behind the guard. The large oval pommel is iron and measures 2.5 x 3 inches (6.35 x 7.62 cm). The base of the pyramid atop the pommel is also iron and has an incised design. The remaining four parts of the pyramid are made of alternating layers of incised brass and copper. The tang is peened over a brass button capping the pyramid. The ornate pommel clearly shows that this blade was meant to be a cut above average (pun shamelessly intended). There is a pierced and incised brass (four corners of the desert” design just below the sheath throat. Unfortunately, most of the sheath suspension is missing. Most unfortunately, the chape is missing also. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

20th December 2025, 10:02 PM	#2
Pertinax Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: City by the Black Sea Posts: 316	Congratulations, Rob, a very interesting and beautiful sword. We discussed these hallmarks: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30639 JOURNAL OF THE SOCIETY OF HISTORICAL WEAPONS HISTORICAL WEAPONS No. 1 2015 EDUARD von LENZ A FEW WORDS ABOUT ANCIENT COLD WEAPONS Page 150-151 IV. Italian Masters. "Gurda". The Italian masters, in contrast to the Solingen and German masters in general, comparatively rarely branded their blades, and if they did, they usually used small marks of a simple form (Fig. 11), which, as far as is known, belonged to the workshops of the cities of Genoa, Brescia, Milan and Belluno and did not constitute the personal property of certain masters. Attached Images

20th December 2025, 10:38 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,744	Yes these are Italian marks. Here is an Italian blade on a takouba with a similar mark: And they were also copied locally, like this takouba with a native blade shows:

Yesterday, 04:58 PM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 599	Thanks for the Info Thanks Pertinax, TVV, and Jim McDougall, I would love it if the blade had been stamped by an Italian maker but even if stamped by an African maker as a talisman/homage/selling point, it’s good to know the origin of the stamp. If I can find a suitably sized brass rod, I will try to fill the holes. Sincerely, RobT

Yesterday, 03:26 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,744	As noted, these curious markings from fig.11 (previous) are those referred to in Mann(1962) as 'twig' marks, and seem to have had wide variation, not only in the branched character but in their occurrence in varied number, configurations and associated other marks (such as 'sickles' etc.) This blade is quite old, and I am tempted to consider it to be European, with the block forte. The twig marks, though usually on the blade center seem to be authentic, probably Italian, however they were also spuriously used in Germany. The holes in linear fashion are unusual and three dots in triangular fashion are often commonly seen on other ethnographic blades, such as in India where they are thought to represent the 'Trimurti'. However it seems possible that these holes were intended to be filled with gold metal, which were a talismanic feature in Islamic swords, from one to several dots ("Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths, Unsal Yucel, 2001). Really interesting takouba with this old blade, and remounted as usual...these blades circulated for generations if not centuries in these tribal spheres.