Two unusual Moro kris

RobT · 11th November 2025, 01:48 AM

Ian,

I have a kris that is very similar to your example B. The greneng on mine is a bit more conventional and mine lacks the ganja line but the ganja area is heavily curved and narrow like yours. I can see no ghost indicating missing baca baca.
Also, on one side of mine, the base of the blade is noticeably lighter than the luk part. If this difference indicates a scarf weld, it is the most seamless one I have ever seen. The other side of the blade is all one shade and doesn’t show a seam either. Other than the number of luk (17), the blade itself looks like a typical 19th century kris. The center line follows the curve of the luk which shows that it was forged on a mandrel. The tip on yours looks odd but the center line appears to follow the luk.
The hilt on mine, with its very slender grip and bulbous pommel looks odd (perhaps the grip wrap was very thick?). The hilt appears to be ebony and is inlaid with MOP (some missing). There was a 5 pointed star inlay on the pommel (missing but probably MOP). No sheath.
Frankly, I don’t know what to make of either of these blades and having two examples just compounds the problem. In some ways, the blades are very conventional and in other ways they aren’t.

Sincerely,
RobT

Ian · 11th November 2025, 09:03 AM

Thanks Rob! Nice example of the questions I have raised. The MOP inserts are a sign of the hilt having been decorated in Zamboanga. The horse hoof pommel is of a Sulu type, but its fairly extreme downwards tilt suggests a possible Yakan influence. That would not be surprising. Yakan are found in significant numbers in Zamboanga, and Basilan is a short ferry journey away. I believe that the hilt on yours was probably wrapped with black twine that was woven and knotted (see my small Sulu bangkung hilt above).

The MOP decorations manly date from the WWII era and later. Similarly, the black cord wraps are roughly of that period. As for a scabbard, it is likely that it too featured MOP inserts at the throat and these were occasionally found down the front of the scabbard. The cut out star on your pommel was probably filled with MOP also.

As for the terminal part of my example B, this is a recognized shape for kris tips, dating from the pre-WWII years and later. It is produced by making the tip more acutely pointed, perhaps better suited for stabbing.

Ian · 11th November 2025, 07:24 PM

Sorry, forgot to address the area without "patina" on your sword. Perhaps this area has been cleaned for some reason or rubbed against a mildly abrasive surface. I've seen similar effects from the blade rubbing against the inside of a wooden scabbard.

Sajen · 12th November 2025, 08:25 PM

Hi Ian,

I guess that these strong angled handles, special with horse hoof handles, are a later style, from 1900 onwards.
Compare it with my heavy and big Sulu/Sama kris with silver, aluminium and MOP fittings.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · Today, 06:44 AM

Hi Detlef,

I agree that these appear to be a mainly 20thC feature. Also. I like that weave on the scabbard. It's a distinctive form, and I see it mainly on 20thC pieces. It would be good if one of our Filipino colleagues could comment on whether it is a uniquely Samal fashion.

Regards, Ian

11th November 2025, 01:48 AM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 574	I have Another B Ian, I have a kris that is very similar to your example B. The greneng on mine is a bit more conventional and mine lacks the ganja line but the ganja area is heavily curved and narrow like yours. I can see no ghost indicating missing baca baca. Also, on one side of mine, the base of the blade is noticeably lighter than the luk part. If this difference indicates a scarf weld, it is the most seamless one I have ever seen. The other side of the blade is all one shade and doesn’t show a seam either. Other than the number of luk (17), the blade itself looks like a typical 19th century kris. The center line follows the curve of the luk which shows that it was forged on a mandrel. The tip on yours looks odd but the center line appears to follow the luk. The hilt on mine, with its very slender grip and bulbous pommel looks odd (perhaps the grip wrap was very thick?). The hilt appears to be ebony and is inlaid with MOP (some missing). There was a 5 pointed star inlay on the pommel (missing but probably MOP). No sheath. Frankly, I don’t know what to make of either of these blades and having two examples just compounds the problem. In some ways, the blades are very conventional and in other ways they aren’t. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

11th November 2025, 09:03 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,541	Thanks Rob! Nice example of the questions I have raised. The MOP inserts are a sign of the hilt having been decorated in Zamboanga. The horse hoof pommel is of a Sulu type, but its fairly extreme downwards tilt suggests a possible Yakan influence. That would not be surprising. Yakan are found in significant numbers in Zamboanga, and Basilan is a short ferry journey away. I believe that the hilt on yours was probably wrapped with black twine that was woven and knotted (see my small Sulu bangkung hilt above). The MOP decorations manly date from the WWII era and later. Similarly, the black cord wraps are roughly of that period. As for a scabbard, it is likely that it too featured MOP inserts at the throat and these were occasionally found down the front of the scabbard. The cut out star on your pommel was probably filled with MOP also. As for the terminal part of my example B, this is a recognized shape for kris tips, dating from the pre-WWII years and later. It is produced by making the tip more acutely pointed, perhaps better suited for stabbing. Last edited by Ian; 11th November 2025 at 07:17 PM.

12th November 2025, 08:25 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,435	Hi Ian, I guess that these strong angled handles, special with horse hoof handles, are a later style, from 1900 onwards. Compare it with my heavy and big Sulu/Sama kris with silver, aluminium and MOP fittings. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

11th November 2025, 07:24 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,541	Sorry, forgot to address the area without "patina" on your sword. Perhaps this area has been cleaned for some reason or rubbed against a mildly abrasive surface. I've seen similar effects from the blade rubbing against the inside of a wooden scabbard.

Today, 06:44 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,541	Hi Detlef, I agree that these appear to be a mainly 20thC feature. Also. I like that weave on the scabbard. It's a distinctive form, and I see it mainly on 20thC pieces. It would be good if one of our Filipino colleagues could comment on whether it is a uniquely Samal fashion. Regards, Ian