Unusual dagger, billfish or bone “blade”?

Athanase · 22nd October 2025, 09:54 PM

The images show fossils; the diagrams only show the bone area without detailing the bone's porosity.
But in reality, bone is very porous, crisscrossed with very fine blood vessels, cartilage, and adipose tissue.
Here's a post that illustrates it well.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_271389341

Ian · 23rd October 2025, 08:34 PM

Athanase, thank you for posting that interesting information. The rostrum is actually a complex organ and it is interesting to read about its possible function in feeding. The bone structure of fish is clearly different from mammalian species. As a retired physician, I'm much more familiar with mammalian physiology and anatomy.

I am surprised by how little "bone" is actually present in these rostra. Cartilage seems to be a common component, perhaps more so than the rigid bony areas. This seems to be borne out by the stress data cited by the authors indicating that the flexibility of these organs can be quite substantial (important in some species to their feeding hypothesis).

However, this discussion seems to have departed some way from the original question of where this item may have been made. Whether a rostrum of a bill fish or a baculum from a walrus, the item would seem to have a nautical connection. By which ethnographic group or in what region of the world it may have been assembled is an interesting question. My vote is for maritime SE Asia.

thomas hauschild · 24th October 2025, 08:32 AM

Some pictures to compare and for future investigations.

A complete Oosik/walrus-baculum with 55 cm.

A piece of oosik ( roughly grinded for a knifegrip ) and its cross-sections. The bigger end of an oosik will show more porosity than the thinner end. This piece was cutted out right in the middle.

A Oryx skull without the horn. This is just the inner bone. But this is very light with many porosity. It looks more like the last picture from the museum than an oosik.

Penis-bones are common, but much smaller, in fox, coyote, wolf, dog and bears with a big differences in length and form. I used a fossil one from an ice-age cave-bear as a knife grip. This specimen was about 20 cm and nearly straight.

wildwolberine · 28th October 2025, 12:51 AM

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I agree this is likely a billfish bill, and probably SE Asian in origin. Surprised it’s apparently not a common item. The construction is so simple I assumed it would be a common trinket or curio item.

Rick · 28th October 2025, 01:17 AM

I see them often enough living in coastal New England made into souvenir swords, and you will run into them now and then on eBay. Like whale bone they keep their stink for quite a long time....

Ian · 28th October 2025, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildwolberine

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I agree this is likely a billfish bill, and probably SE Asian in origin. Surprised it’s apparently not a common item. The construction is so simple I assumed it would be a common trinket or curio item.

ww, I guess it depends on the local market for curious items like this one.

Ian · 28th October 2025, 07:45 PM

Not wishing to extend the debate about swordfish bill versus baculum, but here are some data on the walrus baculum that indicate its unusual length and straightness. There had been some skepticism about the University of Melbourne specimen based on its straightness, but the specimens shown here are consistent with the example from the University of Melbourne.

The data below relate to five bacula of Holocene walrus from Franz Joseph Land (collected by Captain Adams of the steamship ‘Maude’ [Dundee] in 1869 and donated to the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh). They appear in the article: L. Bartosiewicz, Baculum Fracture in Carnivores: Osteological, Behavioural and Cultural
Implications. Int. J. Osteoarchaeol. 10:447–450 (2000).
.

24th October 2025, 08:32 AM	#3
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 146	Some pictures to compare and for future investigations. A complete Oosik/walrus-baculum with 55 cm. A piece of oosik ( roughly grinded for a knifegrip ) and its cross-sections. The bigger end of an oosik will show more porosity than the thinner end. This piece was cutted out right in the middle. A Oryx skull without the horn. This is just the inner bone. But this is very light with many porosity. It looks more like the last picture from the museum than an oosik. Penis-bones are common, but much smaller, in fox, coyote, wolf, dog and bears with a big differences in length and form. I used a fossil one from an ice-age cave-bear as a knife grip. This specimen was about 20 cm and nearly straight. Attached Images

28th October 2025, 07:45 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,609	Not wishing to extend the debate about swordfish bill versus baculum, but here are some data on the walrus baculum that indicate its unusual length and straightness. There had been some skepticism about the University of Melbourne specimen based on its straightness, but the specimens shown here are consistent with the example from the University of Melbourne. The data below relate to five bacula of Holocene walrus from Franz Joseph Land (collected by Captain Adams of the steamship ‘Maude’ [Dundee] in 1869 and donated to the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh). They appear in the article: L. Bartosiewicz, Baculum Fracture in Carnivores: Osteological, Behavioural and Cultural Implications. Int. J. Osteoarchaeol. 10:447–450 (2000). . Attached Images

22nd October 2025, 09:54 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 432	The images show fossils; the diagrams only show the bone area without detailing the bone's porosity. But in reality, bone is very porous, crisscrossed with very fine blood vessels, cartilage, and adipose tissue. Here's a post that illustrates it well. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_271389341

23rd October 2025, 08:34 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,609	Athanase, thank you for posting that interesting information. The rostrum is actually a complex organ and it is interesting to read about its possible function in feeding. The bone structure of fish is clearly different from mammalian species. As a retired physician, I'm much more familiar with mammalian physiology and anatomy. I am surprised by how little "bone" is actually present in these rostra. Cartilage seems to be a common component, perhaps more so than the rigid bony areas. This seems to be borne out by the stress data cited by the authors indicating that the flexibility of these organs can be quite substantial (important in some species to their feeding hypothesis). However, this discussion seems to have departed some way from the original question of where this item may have been made. Whether a rostrum of a bill fish or a baculum from a walrus, the item would seem to have a nautical connection. By which ethnographic group or in what region of the world it may have been assembled is an interesting question. My vote is for maritime SE Asia.

28th October 2025, 12:51 AM	#4
wildwolberine Member Join Date: May 2023 Location: San Antonio Posts: 141	Thanks for the comments, everyone! I agree this is likely a billfish bill, and probably SE Asian in origin. Surprised it’s apparently not a common item. The construction is so simple I assumed it would be a common trinket or curio item.

28th October 2025, 01:17 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,378	I see them often enough living in coastal New England made into souvenir swords, and you will run into them now and then on eBay. Like whale bone they keep their stink for quite a long time....