strange sword

[Jim McDougall]

Im with you Rick, that cartouche with likely Urdu script in that quadrant of the forte is seen on Indian blades 18th c. into early 19th. The blade then rebated in accord with conventions in the regions mentioned Assam or Nepal or even further into SE Asia.....which of course leans toward Burma.

An unusual composite which presents lots of interesting possibilities.

[Patterson25]

I agree with you.
The tip of the Indian blade was cut off, with an old, aged patina.
I ended up in the same area too, Nagaland, Assam, India. Late 19 C.
I quote "The Naga people of the Nagaland in Assam, North East India use several types of swords, including a long Dao sword with a single edge blade, similar to blades of Tibet and Bhutan the neighbouring countries. These swords usually comes with an open side scabbard, like in the Dao sword offered here. This sword is most probably coming from the Angani Naga people".

[ausjulius]

These clipped type of blades are common among several ethnic groups in what is now the the modern provinces of Yunnan and Guangxi.
The tai/dai larger ethno group makes such swords.. many of the Zhuang people's swords have such a clipped tip..
The Bai in yunnan also make swords in this style.

[Patterson25]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

These clipped type of blades are common among several ethnic groups in what is now the the modern provinces of Yunnan and Guangxi.
The tai/dai larger ethno group makes such swords.. many of the Zhuang people's swords have such a clipped tip..
The Bai in yunnan also make swords in this style.

I went in that direction first, because of Muslim minorities there.
However the blade is Indian as noticed by rsword and mcDougal.
I don't even think the script is Arabic, but rather Urdu or Farsi...

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Patterson25

I went in that direction first, because of Muslim minorities there.
However the blade is Indian as noticed by rsword and mcDougal.
I don't even think the script is Arabic, but rather Urdu or Farsi...

yep the blade doesn't match the sword thats for sure and does look indian to me..
but the shape and style is from that region.

[Ian]

An interesting composite sword. One wonders why and how a NE Indian/Pakistani blade came to be mounted in this unusal manner and where that occurred. One possibility is a traveler, moving from east to west, and that raises further questions about who that might be (Southern Asian, SE Asian, or European?) and why they would choose to mount the sword in this manner.

Some observations on the blade. I agree that it is most likely NE Indian/Pakistani. The fuller, ricasso, and heavy stamp mark have already been mentioned as most likely from that area. A square end to the blade would be most uncommon for that region. There seems to be consensus that the blade has been shortened to give it the square end. Some ethnic groups in NW India and neighboring areas have been mentioned as groups that use such square-ended blades, however the preference for such blade tips is almost exclusively on straight blades, not curved ones (there are uncommon exceptions on Thai/Lao blades, some Shan blades, and some southern Yunnan examples such as HuSa). The Kachin/Jingpaw in the more northern areas of Burma and Yunnan use only straight-bladed dha/dao with flat ends.

The dha/dao of NW India do not have guards and the length of their hilts on flat-ended blades is quite short (shorter than the hilt on the original post). Similarly, Burmese dha have relatively short hilts and no guard. Shan, Thai/Lao, Cambodian and Vietnamese daab/dao oftenhave longer hilts, and Southern Yunnan, Thai/Lao, Cambodian and Vietnamese swords can have disc guards (similar to the O.P.).

With respect to the hilt, I find it a little surprising that a smooth cylinder of turned wood has been used for the grip. This is not very practical because when such a grip is wet (as from blood or water) it becomes slippery and hard to hold. For this reason hilt surfaces are textured or wrapped in materials that give a firmer grip when wet. Also, a circular grip is the least stable in the hand and likely to twist while being used. Lastly is the small, nondescript pommel of ivory or bone, attached with a pin, that offers no clue to its ethnic origin. To me the hilt has some SE Asian/southern Chinese familiarity but I suspect its assembly had European influence also.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this sword looks most like some of the dao from Vietnam, notably the southern part. There was a lot of trade between Vietnamese ports and the south-eastern coast of India, thus ample opportunity for a sword from NE India to make its way to southern Vietnam. Sea travel would have been a much easier route than traversing India overland to reach SE Asia.

Iain Norman is our resident expert on SE Asian swords and I hope he will stop by and give his opinion here.

[Ian]

Here is a rotated and enLarged picture of the stamp on the ricasso. The blade appears to have some age in line with Jim's estimate. Anyone recognise the stamp? What is the likelihood that this could be a wootz blade? There are areas near the junction of the ricasso and sharpened edge that look promising, and if Jim's date estimate is correct then the chances are good.

.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this sword looks most like some of the dao from Vietnam, notably the southern part. There was a lot of trade between Vietnamese ports and the south-eastern coast of India, thus ample opportunity for a sword from NE India to make its way to southern Vietnam. Sea travel would have been a much easier route than traversing India overland to reach SE Asia.

Sorry Ian,

I am more with Rick (RSWORD) and Jim and think that this sword has its roots in Assam or Arunachal Pradesh but like always I could be wrong. Just my feeling.

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Sorry Ian,

I am more with Rick (RSWORD) and Jim and think that this sword has its roots in Assam or Arunachal Pradesh but like always I could be wrong. Just my feeling.

Regards,
Detlef

Detlef, I respect your extensive knowledge of the SE Asian region and related areas. For that reason, I consulted every reference that I have on hand that is relevant to NE India and the Himalayan areas looking for any similar hilt.

The many and varied tribal groups making up Assam, Manipur and Arunachal Pradash present a challenge to identify particular sword types in the literature and there are few data from the 18th C. The lack of 18th C information may not be a major problem as several authors indicate that swords pre-1800 were similar to what was observed in the 1800s in the tribal areas. The most frequently encountered swords in NW India were guardless dao carried in an open-faced wooden scabbard or woven wicker sheath. Next most common were swords from (a) Bhutan and Tibet (with small round guards and short hilts) and (b) Burma (Kachin/Jingpho and Burman) which are guardless and have medium length hilts. Occasionally, Indian swords with Mughal tulwar-style hilts are seen, but these seem confined to the more affluent and powerful members of the NW Indian groups. Mention is also made of Chinese swords but these were among the tribal groups in the most northern and remote areas of Arunachal Pradesh.

The hilt on the O.P. here has a fairly large circular guard and longish hilt. The O.P.'s hilt is not typical of Burmese, Kachin, Bhutanese, Tibetan or Chinese styles.

Detlef, if you still feel this hilt is from NE India then please show me another example from that area with a similar hilt. Otherwise, with the greatest respect, I think we need to look elsewhere.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

With respect to the hilt, I find it a little surprising that a smooth cylinder of turned wood has been used for the grip. This is not very practical because when such a grip is wet (as from blood or water) it becomes slippery and hard to hold. For this reason hilt surfaces are textured or wrapped in materials that give a firmer grip when wet. Also, a circular grip is the least stable in the hand and likely to twist while being used. Lastly is the small, nondescript pommel of ivory or bone, attached with a pin, that offers no clue to its ethnic origin. To me the hilt has some SE Asian/southern Chinese familiarity but I suspect its assembly had European influence also.

A handle wrapping could get lost over the years, special when it was from cloth.

[Bob A]

Is there any indication of a wrap having been in place on the hilt? Hord to judge from the photos above.