Unknown Spanish colonial or Mexican Basket Hilted sabre

Jim McDougall · 1st October 2025, 06:40 PM

I finally received the copy of "Treasures of the Caribbean" by Rodney Hilton Brown (2023) and it is an intriguing compendium of various stories and circumstances in Caribbean history often with cited references .Unfortunately this entry showing what appears to be the same pattern in hilt and blade, does not cite such reference, (p.279).
The blade with same fullering carries the Spanish motto, suggesting the swords were apparently inscribed independently.
While the date/period indicates c. 1720, this is incorrect as this is a Napoleonic period sword.

After some time of going through "Les Sabres" by Jean Lhoste and Patrick Resek (450 pages) I found no comparison as far as the hilt form, and this book is incredibly comprehensive.
I did find that the flaming grenade device was indeed notably present on various hilt form, typically amidst hilt guard assemblies in cartouche, some singular on stirrup hilt sabers, of grenadiers and gendarmerie, as noted.
However I found no cases of these grenades used at root of arms of multi branch hilts as seen here. The style of the branch system suggest in my opinion that this is most likely a limited issue of Spanish officers sword c.1800-20, and of course clearly influenced by French forms. As yet, no match in references on Spanish or Mexican sword form references.

Rick · 1st October 2025, 07:35 PM

Could the blade form be classified as a colichemarde?

Jim McDougall · 1st October 2025, 08:39 PM

Thats a really good observation Rick! In looking at the example posted, all the attention to the upper part of the blade, with it gradually tapering to a point does bring to mind the colichemarde, again recalling these kinds of influences.

However the 'colichemarde' was strictly an epee of small sword type for dueling, with the upper part of the blade intended for parry in blade to blade combat, with the forward part still narrow and intended for thrusting.
The Spaniards stubbornly held to their mysterious 'destreza' style of fence, which focused on posturing and thrusting attacks.

The French were for faster lighter swords, both cut and thrust, and indeed full blade contact.

This much heavier blade and hilt form were intended for a degree of combat, but not in the sense of fencing. Ive been studying these situations a bit lately toward the use of dueling swords in California in this period, which means Im just a little less perplexed

midelburgo · Yesterday, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I finally received the copy of "Treasures of the Caribbean" by Rodney Hilton Brown (2023) and it is an intriguing compendium of various stories and circumstances in Caribbean history often with cited references .Unfortunately this entry showing what appears to be the same pattern in hilt and blade, does not cite such reference, (p.279).
The blade with same fullering carries the Spanish motto, suggesting the swords were apparently inscribed independently.
While the date/period indicates c. 1720, this is incorrect as this is a Napoleonic period sword.

I believe it is the same sword, but they say the motto is different, a more catchy one. Artistic license or whatever.

Tim Simmons · Today, 07:04 AM

Just an off the cuff suggestion, the use of silver for the guard might indicate an Andean origin like Boliva with the huge silver mine.

1st October 2025, 06:40 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,616	I finally received the copy of "Treasures of the Caribbean" by Rodney Hilton Brown (2023) and it is an intriguing compendium of various stories and circumstances in Caribbean history often with cited references .Unfortunately this entry showing what appears to be the same pattern in hilt and blade, does not cite such reference, (p.279). The blade with same fullering carries the Spanish motto, suggesting the swords were apparently inscribed independently. While the date/period indicates c. 1720, this is incorrect as this is a Napoleonic period sword. After some time of going through "Les Sabres" by Jean Lhoste and Patrick Resek (450 pages) I found no comparison as far as the hilt form, and this book is incredibly comprehensive. I did find that the flaming grenade device was indeed notably present on various hilt form, typically amidst hilt guard assemblies in cartouche, some singular on stirrup hilt sabers, of grenadiers and gendarmerie, as noted. However I found no cases of these grenades used at root of arms of multi branch hilts as seen here. The style of the branch system suggest in my opinion that this is most likely a limited issue of Spanish officers sword c.1800-20, and of course clearly influenced by French forms. As yet, no match in references on Spanish or Mexican sword form references. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 1st October 2025 at 06:59 PM.

1st October 2025, 07:35 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,369	Could the blade form be classified as a colichemarde?

1st October 2025, 08:39 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,616	Thats a really good observation Rick! In looking at the example posted, all the attention to the upper part of the blade, with it gradually tapering to a point does bring to mind the colichemarde, again recalling these kinds of influences. However the 'colichemarde' was strictly an epee of small sword type for dueling, with the upper part of the blade intended for parry in blade to blade combat, with the forward part still narrow and intended for thrusting. The Spaniards stubbornly held to their mysterious 'destreza' style of fence, which focused on posturing and thrusting attacks. The French were for faster lighter swords, both cut and thrust, and indeed full blade contact. This much heavier blade and hilt form were intended for a degree of combat, but not in the sense of fencing. Ive been studying these situations a bit lately toward the use of dueling swords in California in this period, which means Im just a little less perplexed

Today, 07:04 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,902	Just an off the cuff suggestion, the use of silver for the guard might indicate an Andean origin like Boliva with the huge silver mine.